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From: spm2d@newton.acc.Virginia.EDU (Steven P. Miale)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.activism,talk.environment,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Advertising is bad
Keywords: DMA Suppression junk-mail recycling activism
Message-ID: <1991Feb5.192632.20536@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 5 Feb 91 19:26:32 GMT
References: <156215@felix.UUCP> <1991Feb1.054640.1441@cs.ucla.edu> <156606@felix.UUCP>
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In article <156606@felix.UUCP> asylvain@felix.UUCP (Alvin "the Chipmunk" Sylvain) writes:
>Murder and advertising are two different items.  Advertising may offend
>your sensibilities, or inconvenience you, but there's no bloodshed
>(except, mayhaps an occasional paper-cut.)

But that is not the point. The point is, just because something exists,
should we accept it? NO.
>
>> But the advertising has no informational value.  Just some stupid song
>> or a pretty face or something like that.  It is content free.
>
>So?  That makes it bad?  Most of USENET is content free!

Including your messages!
>
>> They are on the shelf of the store.  I am trying to remember the last
>> product I bought where I learned of the existence of the product through
>> advertising, much less junk mail.
>
>Yes, but *which* store!  Would you drive 5 miles out of your way to try
>a different store to save maybe 20% from your bill?  I would!  I do!
>How are you going to find out about that store if it doesn't advertise?

Well, lets see. I'm hungry! I need to go to a grocery store! Well, since
they don't advertise, I'll STARVE because I don't know about them!
Ever consider that people shop around? Who REALLY listens to all that
nonsense about how "Food Tiger saves you money by doing something
completely worthless!" and "Not Really All That Fresh has UNADVERTISED
SPECIALS which we advertise anyway because we are dits!"? NOBODY. They
try the different stores and find out which one is cheaper. If they
talk to a friend who says "yeah, Bob's is cheaper", they'll go there.
Word of mouth WORKS.
>
>> Might be a better world.
>
>Say that when you get out of school and can't find a job!

So people won't buy ANYTHING unless companies advertise? Gosh, that
makes sense! Heck, nobody would buy any food if food companies didn't
advertise! And that is EXACTLY what you are saying.
Of course, if you fail to respond to this argument, I'll assume you
agree with me (ala Four person debate) and thus I'd win!
>
>> Advertising is evil.
>
>Guess what, your resume is advertising too.  If you really feel the way
>you do about *all* forms of advertising, remember, that resume is your
>personal ad.  Sending intro letters to potential employers is advertis-
>ing.  Better throw those applications in the trash can, now.

Resumes aren't evil. Calling up bosses every day and say "Hey! Will you
hire me?" gets annoying. Doesn't it?
>
>> invasive,
>
>No more invasive than you allow.  If you don't like an ad, ignore it.
>It will cost you all of 2 minutes to sort thru some junk mail and toss
>it.  If you had plans for those 2 minutes, well, I'm sorry.  Get a PO
>box for your important mail, and toss *everything* that comes to your
>house.

OK, then. Now, please give us your address. Why? Because I want to fill
out all those cards in magazines like Computer Shopper and such to receive
merchandiser advertisements and be put on their mailing lists. Since
you clearly LOVE to get junk mail, I'd think you'd consider this a
blessing.
And when you DO give us your address, I encourage EVERYBODY on the net
to fill out those reader info cards and fill this fellas mailbox up
REAL quick. Hey, all he has to do is take 2 minutes to sort through
this junk!
>
>If you find something *really* *mongo* offensive (like obscenity, misre-
>presentation, fraudulent, etc.), write a friendly letter to the company.
>Chances are very good they'll listen.  Entire ad campaigns have been
>dropped on the strength of a single letter from a consumer.  Companies
>*need* your support.

Give me one example.
>
>> It provides no information, only slogans.
>
>It provides all the information the advertisers wish for you to have.

A bunch of lies. Not the truth. LIES.
h
>If you want more information on a product, you must seek other sources.
>Besides, education is *not* the purpose of an ad.  (Neither are slogans
>for that matter.  Merely an incidental.)

Isn't that the case you were making earlier in your message? That ads
"educate" the public? If not, what ARE the purpose of ads? Do tell.
>
>> It increases the costs of products.
>> Let's face it, it costs money and someone has to pay,
>> and that someone is the consumer.
>
>Successful advertising allows a company to increase it's market share,
>allowing it to sell *more* products, which frequently allows it to apply
>volume discounts to it's production, and, *if it's a good idea*, pass
>those discounts to the consumer.  The consumer *saves* money.

Which means other companies have to advertise more, raising THEIR
prices. There IS a limit to how much mass production saves money,
you know.
>
>(I say "if it's a good idea", because people are often surprised to find
>out that it's not always a good idea.  It frequently happens that reducing
>the price of an item also reduces demand.)

Reducing price reduces demand. Contrary to what EVERY SINGLE ECONOMICS
TEXTBOOK IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND HAS SAID, you have just really stuck
your foot in your mouth. OK, if this is true, then raising prices increases
demand, eh? DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.
>
>Furthermore, once it's selling more of a product, the company has more
>money to spend on things such as diversifying into other markets, where
>it can produce more products, creating even more profit.  Also, inciden-
>tally, creating more jobs.

Once it's selling more of a product, it does diversify, which means it
spends more money on advertising, creating less profit.

>> Junk phone calls are even worse than junk mail.
>
>Get an unlisted number, and you won't be bothered anymore.  (My number
>is *listed*, and I haven't been bothered by junk calls at all!  It's the
>funniest thing, tho, these new "automated phone calling machines".  One
>of them reached my answering machine!)

Oh, now this is really a bunch of crap. My family has an unlisted number,
and guess what - we STILL get calls. Telemarketing calls. Yes, really!
>
>asylvain@felix.UUCP (Alvin "the Chipmunk" Sylvain)

Maybe we can flood his mailbox with junk e-mail. Why not? He seems to
love it...

Steven Miale