Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!sco!ericd From: ericd@sco.COM (Eric Davis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip Subject: Re: copy protection Message-ID: <14127@scorn.sco.COM> Date: 31 Jan 91 17:42:07 GMT References: <9101272223.AA08327@desktalk.com> <6207@rsiatl.Dixie.Com> Sender: news@sco.COM Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. Lines: 423 Dear Netlanders Some of the information in this post is incorrect. I do not want to use network bandwidth to explain the issues, however I would be more than willing to email concerned individuals directly about the the copy protection scheme and how it affects system adminstration and users. From a techinical and adminstrative point of view SCO's implementation of a copy protection scheme it is not the limiting monster that it is thought to be. Please take time to understand the facts. Eric Davis =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Eric Davis () INTERNET -=+ ericd@sco.COM Technical Support Engineer II () UUCP -=+ {uunet|sun|att|ucsc}!sco!ericd () VOX -=+ US + 408 425 7222 () FAX -=+ US + 408 427 5443 () TWX -=+ 910-598-4510 sco sacz () HOME -=+ ericd@bumby.santa-cruz.ca.US The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. ()=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 399 Encinal Street () "We are the people our parents warned us Santa Cruz, California 95061 () about" -Jimmy Buffett attn: ericd () #include Fellow networkers, + +>While I agree that copy protection can make life less than fun for an +>administrator trying to make sure he/she restores the correct unique +>set of floppies on a trashed machine, I don't understand why people +>feel the vendor has no right to protect their (usually considerable) +>investment in product development from rip-off artists. And note that +>that term includes offices where everyone passes a copy around as much +>as people who take the floppies home overnight to make one for their +>personal use. + +>If you want to live on share-ware go ahead, but to say that people +>should boycott a company that tries to keep you from making unauthorized +>copies of their software is like saying you shouldn't go to the +>supermarket because they prosecute shoplifters. + +NO!! This is like saying that the supermarket prosecutes every customer +because they have a paranoia based on an imagined but not detected thief. + +As the owner of a small software and (real soon to be) hardware company, +I gotta comment. On my soapbox. + +The reason copy protection of any kind is obscene is that it is merely a +symptom of an attitude disease in the vendor company. Instead of viewing +the customer as the source of his wealth and cultivating him accordingly, +the vendor views the customer as simply a source of money who is to be +milked to the extent possible. Ever notice how copy protection-using +vendors talk about those evil pirates with the same disgusted tone +reserved for cheating spouses, child rapers and politicians? It has +nothing to do with a few disks being passed around. + +Wealth in a business context means far more than the money collected on a +sale. Business wealth means sales revenues, customer good will, word-of +mouth advertising, followon sales, upgrade and new product purchases, +customer understanding when bugs and/or bad features are found (which may +mean the difference between a polite phone call to customer support and a +massive flamage to this net and/or every magazine they can address a +letter to,) tolerance of corporate mistakes by regulators, and (close to +the hearts of the protectionists) customer reporting of flagrant +copyright or contract violations. + +It really is an attitude problem on the part of the vendor. I look upon +incidental copying (which I define as the insignificant copying to take +home, to give to a friend or similiar activity.) as absolutely free +advertising. If I offer good customer support, fair pricing, and a +decent upgrade policy, so-called "incidental pirates" will either grow +bored with the program or will buy a package in order to get all the +above benefits. And if they don't buy? Well, I've not really lost +anything because that person probably would not have bought in any +event and it is not like he had reached in my pocket and taken money +out. I simply failed to sell this person. + +I do, of course, have serious problems with real piracy, such +as corporate copying or pirate resellers or bulk give-aways. But we have +more than adequate legal remedies to address these problems. If I treat +my customers as collegues and trusted friends instead of money pits, it +is likely that one of them will call and report large scale piracy. After +all, it is in all our benefits that we all stay around over the long term. + +Didya ever notice that there is usually an inverse relationship between +the quality of software and the degree of copy protection. Some of the +absolutely worst software I've ever used (EE Designer) was a heavily +protected CAD package. This package was written in MS BASIC, for +christsake. Yet the graphics device driver which contains the copy +protection code employs a multitasker to allow the copy protection dongle +to be checked in real time (couldn't have a *paying customer* start the +program and then *gasp* switch the dongle to another machine so that work +could continue while the first PC drives a plotter for 6 hours.) +Conversely, some of the best software (OrCad, WordPerfect) have +absolutely no protection. Indeed, WordPerfect will take a support call +on their 800 number from so-called pirates. + +The original source of this thread, SCO Unix is a classic example. Their +Unix implementation is IHMO a piece of shit. Not only is it buggy in +general, the copy protection locks up the machine if it thinks it +discoverd a *GASP* pirate. No warnings, no controlled shutdown, just a +lockup. It's the company's Deputy Dipshit instinct revealing itself. +While SCO is huddling in their hovels in an emotional corporate crisis, +companies like IBM who DO understand customers (and coincidently how to +make money from them) are giving RS/6000s with nary a sign of copy +protection (yet, at least) to potential customers. Wonder whether there +are now more AIX or SCO Unix application platforms out there now? I +have one client who is a MAJOR SCO VAR and reseller drop SCO and go with +AIX because of this crap. I wonder how many more customers are out +there? Is the small system Unix market going to hand the market to IBM? +Looks like.. + +Here are some keys to "protecting your development investments" by +keeping customers happy: + +* Provide a good product at a fair price. If you have a $50 product + that you are trying to sell for $500, then don't be surprised that + copying goes on. Exhibit A: Lotus 123. If you think you have a + product worth thousands, then prove it to your customers. If you + REALLY think that copying is a threat, have the customer sign + a contract before delivering the product. + +* Provide plenty of easy to use technical support. Sure, users are + dorks but they are also the ones who pay your salary and who + can either give you tremendous free advertising or more bad press + than you can ever overcome. + +* Provide free bug fixes and provide free upgrades to those who report bugs. + After all, the bug is your f*ckup, not the customer's. + +* Provide real value for the money in upgrades. Don't call bugfix releases + upgrades in order to charge for them. Telebit is one of the worst + companies in this regard. $150 for bugfixs. Jeez! Of course, + they increment the major version number to make it look like an upgrade. + +* If you sell a shrink-wrapped product, put in a copyright statement that + won't make customers laugh as they throw it in the garbage. You can + do much worse than to copy Boreland's copyright statement. Oh, and + do not make it worse by calling it a "license agreement". + +* Provide a way for your potential customers to "try before you buy". + Incidental copying is a very legitimate way to do this, as is shareware. + Orcad takes a different and inovative approach. Call an Orcad sales + office and ask for a demo product. What you will get is a fully + functional version of the product but with a dongle. Use it as + long as you wish. When you buy, you get an unprotected version. + +Customer Service will make or break your product. You'd damn well better +plan for it as an integral feature of your product, fully as important +as the software not crashing. Here's an example of how to and how not to +do customer support. I have used 2 brands of intelligent async cards in +Unix systems for my customers. One brand is Comtrol and the other is +Stargate. I no longer use Stargate because of customer support. + +When I opened the first Comtrol box, the first thing I saw was a plastic gold +card just like a credit card. On this card was printed the 800 toll free +support number AND the names and direct dial numbers for the General Manager, +the Engineering Manager, the Hardware Tech Support manager, the Software +Tech Support manager, the Production manager, the Marketing manager and +the Sales manager. Above this list of numbers is this statement: + + "Our committment to you doesn't stop with our products. We give + you the support and the extra service you want. IT's because your + satisfaction is our #1 priority. COMTROL is only a phone call away. + You have full access to all COMTROL personnel. For your convenience, + primary department contacts are listed below:" + +I've had one occasion to use the support number. A board arrived one +evening DOA. I called just at closing time. COMTROL had someone drive +a board down to Delta DASH and I got it in a few hours. They told me +to return the DOA one when convenient and not to worry about shipping +back the (very good) documentation. + +My Stargate experience was a bit different. I inherited my first card +in some surplus stock I bought. The card uses address decode PALs that +are specific for each OS. My card was equipped for Xenix and I needed a +PAL for ISC Unix. I called up Stargate and reached a rather sullen tech +support technician. I was told that a new PAL cost $150!!! I passed on +the PAL and obtained one from a friend but ordered a driver disk for +ISC. When it got here, it was accompanied by some Nth-generation xeroxed +dot-matrix printed documentation that was practically unreadable and it +would not install. It did not meet the specifications of ISC's +installpkg facility. I copied the disk onto the system and installed it +manually. + +Later, I needed to get an upgraded driver for a new version of the OS. +I called Stargate for the upgrade, somewhat expecting to pay for it. +I was told that I would either have to write (!) to the sales department +who would investigate me as a customer and if I passed, would give me +the secret password to their BBS where I could download the upgrade. +Or I could write and include some money and get a disk. Write a letter +in order to access a BBS indeed! Could they have been afraid that I +had wirewrapped a board in my basement and wanted to steal the driver +to make it work? Who knows. + +Now both boards work pretty well equally. But I'll never fool with +Stargate again while I recommend COMTROL whenever the opportunity arises. +The difference is service. I perceived a better value from COMTROL even +though it cost more. + +I firmly believe that if companies would get their heads out of where the +sun never shines and focus the energy they put into copy protection into +product quality, so-called piracy would cease to be an issue and their +profits would soar. As my company grows, I'm going to do the best of my +ability to prove this theory correct yet again. + +John + +-- +John De Armond, WD4OQC | "Purveyors of speed to the Trade" (tm) +Rapid Deployment System, Inc. | Home of the Nidgets (tm) +Marietta, Ga | +{emory,uunet}!rsiatl!jgd |"Politically InCorrect.. And damn proud of it Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip Subject: Re: copy protection Summary: Expires: References: <9101272223.AA08327@desktalk.com+ <6207@rsiatl.Dixie.Com> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. Keywords: In article <6207@rsiatl.Dixie.Com+ jgd@Dixie.Com (John G. DeArmond) writes: +rlg@BIOBIO.DESKTALK.COM (Richard L. Gralnik) writes: + +>Fellow networkers, + +>While I agree that copy protection can make life less than fun for an +>administrator trying to make sure he/she restores the correct unique +>set of floppies on a trashed machine, I don't understand why people +>feel the vendor has no right to protect their (usually considerable) +>investment in product development from rip-off artists. And note that +>that term includes offices where everyone passes a copy around as much +>as people who take the floppies home overnight to make one for their +>personal use. + +>If you want to live on share-ware go ahead, but to say that people +>should boycott a company that tries to keep you from making unauthorized +>copies of their software is like saying you shouldn't go to the +>supermarket because they prosecute shoplifters. + +NO!! This is like saying that the supermarket prosecutes every customer +because they have a paranoia based on an imagined but not detected thief. + +As the owner of a small software and (real soon to be) hardware company, +I gotta comment. On my soapbox. + +The reason copy protection of any kind is obscene is that it is merely a +symptom of an attitude disease in the vendor company. Instead of viewing +the customer as the source of his wealth and cultivating him accordingly, +the vendor views the customer as simply a source of money who is to be +milked to the extent possible. Ever notice how copy protection-using +vendors talk about those evil pirates with the same disgusted tone +reserved for cheating spouses, child rapers and politicians? It has +nothing to do with a few disks being passed around. + +Wealth in a business context means far more than the money collected on a +sale. Business wealth means sales revenues, customer good will, word-of +mouth advertising, followon sales, upgrade and new product purchases, +customer understanding when bugs and/or bad features are found (which may +mean the difference between a polite phone call to customer support and a +massive flamage to this net and/or every magazine they can address a +letter to,) tolerance of corporate mistakes by regulators, and (close to +the hearts of the protectionists) customer reporting of flagrant +copyright or contract violations. + +It really is an attitude problem on the part of the vendor. I look upon +incidental copying (which I define as the insignificant copying to take +home, to give to a friend or similiar activity.) as absolutely free +advertising. If I offer good customer support, fair pricing, and a +decent upgrade policy, so-called "incidental pirates" will either grow +bored with the program or will buy a package in order to get all the +above benefits. And if they don't buy? Well, I've not really lost +anything because that person probably would not have bought in any +event and it is not like he had reached in my pocket and taken money +out. I simply failed to sell this person. + +I do, of course, have serious problems with real piracy, such +as corporate copying or pirate resellers or bulk give-aways. But we have +more than adequate legal remedies to address these problems. If I treat +my customers as collegues and trusted friends instead of money pits, it +is likely that one of them will call and report large scale piracy. After +all, it is in all our benefits that we all stay around over the long term. + +Didya ever notice that there is usually an inverse relationship between +the quality of software and the degree of copy protection. Some of the +absolutely worst software I've ever used (EE Designer) was a heavily +protected CAD package. This package was written in MS BASIC, for +christsake. Yet the graphics device driver which contains the copy +protection code employs a multitasker to allow the copy protection dongle +to be checked in real time (couldn't have a *paying customer* start the +program and then *gasp* switch the dongle to another machine so that work +could continue while the first PC drives a plotter for 6 hours.) +Conversely, some of the best software (OrCad, WordPerfect) have +absolutely no protection. Indeed, WordPerfect will take a support call +on their 800 number from so-called pirates. + +The original source of this thread, SCO Unix is a classic example. Their +Unix implementation is IHMO a piece of shit. Not only is it buggy in +general, the copy protection locks up the machine if it thinks it +discoverd a *GASP* pirate. No warnings, no controlled shutdown, just a +lockup. It's the company's Deputy Dipshit instinct revealing itself. +While SCO is huddling in their hovels in an emotional corporate crisis, +companies like IBM who DO understand customers (and coincidently how to +make money from them) are giving RS/6000s with nary a sign of copy +protection (yet, at least) to potential customers. Wonder whether there +are now more AIX or SCO Unix application platforms out there now? I +have one client who is a MAJOR SCO VAR and reseller drop SCO and go with +AIX because of this crap. I wonder how many more customers are out +there? Is the small system Unix market going to hand the market to IBM? +Looks like.. + +Here are some keys to "protecting your development investments" by +keeping customers happy: + +* Provide a good product at a fair price. If you have a $50 product + that you are trying to sell for $500, then don't be surprised that + copying goes on. Exhibit A: Lotus 123. If you think you have a + product worth thousands, then prove it to your customers. If you + REALLY think that copying is a threat, have the customer sign + a contract before delivering the product. + +* Provide plenty of easy to use technical support. Sure, users are + dorks but they are also the ones who pay your salary and who + can either give you tremendous free advertising or more bad press + than you can ever overcome. + +* Provide free bug fixes and provide free upgrades to those who report bugs. + After all, the bug is your f*ckup, not the customer's. + +* Provide real value for the money in upgrades. Don't call bugfix releases + upgrades in order to charge for them. Telebit is one of the worst + companies in this regard. $150 for bugfixs. Jeez! Of course, + they increment the major version number to make it look like an upgrade. + +* If you sell a shrink-wrapped product, put in a copyright statement that + won't make customers laugh as they throw it in the garbage. You can + do much worse than to copy Boreland's copyright statement. Oh, and + do not make it worse by calling it a "license agreement". + +* Provide a way for your potential customers to "try before you buy". + Incidental copying is a very legitimate way to do this, as is shareware. + Orcad takes a different and inovative approach. Call an Orcad sales + office and ask for a demo product. What you will get is a fully + functional version of the product but with a dongle. Use it as + long as you wish. When you buy, you get an unprotected version. + +Customer Service will make or break your product. You'd damn well better +plan for it as an integral feature of your product, fully as important +as the software not crashing. Here's an example of how to and how not to +do customer support. I have used 2 brands of intelligent async cards in +Unix systems for my customers. One brand is Comtrol and the other is +Stargate. I no longer use Stargate because of customer support. + +When I opened the first Comtrol box, the first thing I saw was a plastic gold +card just like a credit card. On this card was printed the 800 toll free +support number AND the names and direct dial numbers for the General Manager, +the Engineering Manager, the Hardware Tech Support manager, the Software +Tech Support manager, the Production manager, the Marketing manager and +the Sales manager. Above this list of numbers is this statement: + + "Our committment to you doesn't stop with our products. We give + you the support and the extra service you want. IT's because your + satisfaction is our #1 priority. COMTROL is only a phone call away. + You have full access to all COMTROL personnel. For your convenience, + primary department contacts are listed below:" + +I've had one occasion to use the support number. A board arrived one +evening DOA. I called just at closing time. COMTROL had someone drive +a board down to Delta DASH and I got it in a few hours. They told me +to return the DOA one when convenient and not to worry about shipping +back the (very good) documentation. + +My Stargate experience was a bit different. I inherited my first card +in some surplus stock I bought. The card uses address decode PALs that +are specific for each OS. My card was equipped for Xenix and I needed a +PAL for ISC Unix. I called up Stargate and reached a rather sullen tech +support technician. I was told that a new PAL cost $150!!! I passed on +the PAL and obtained one from a friend but ordered a driver disk for +ISC. When it got here, it was accompanied by some Nth-generation xeroxed +dot-matrix printed documentation that was practically unreadable and it +would not install. It did not meet the specifications of ISC's +installpkg facility. I copied the disk onto the system and installed it +manually. + +Later, I needed to get an upgraded driver for a new version of the OS. +I called Stargate for the upgrade, somewhat expecting to pay for it. +I was told that I would either have to write (!) to the sales department +who would investigate me as a customer and if I passed, would give me +the secret password to their BBS where I could download the upgrade. +Or I could write and include some money and get a disk. Write a letter +in order to access a BBS indeed! Could they have been afraid that I +had wirewrapped a board in my basement and wanted to steal the driver +to make it work? Who knows. + +Now both boards work pretty well equally. But I'll never fool with +Stargate again while I recommend COMTROL whenever the opportunity arises. +The difference is service. I perceived a better value from COMTROL even +though it cost more. + +I firmly believe that if companies would get their heads out of where the +sun never shines and focus the energy they put into copy protection into +product quality, so-called piracy would cease to be an issue and their +profits would soar. As my company grows, I'm going to do the best of my +ability to prove this theory correct yet again. + +John + +-- +John De Armond, WD4OQC | "Purveyors of speed to the Trade" (tm) +Rapid Deployment System, Inc. | Home of the Nidgets (tm) +Marietta, Ga | +{emory,uunet}!rsiatl!jgd |"Politically InCorrect.. And damn proud of it