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From: gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
Subject: Re: Ethics: Software Sale Horror Story
Summary: Some hints
Message-ID: <1991Feb5.180344.1423@limbic.ssdl.com>
Date: 5 Feb 91 18:03:44 GMT
References: <2@liltyke.CHI.IL.US>
Distribution: na
Organization: Southwest Systems Development Labs, Houston, TX
Lines: 72

In article <2@liltyke.CHI.IL.US> dpb@liltyke.chi.il.us (Darryl P. Baker) writes:
>What we couldn't settle on was who would send what to whom
>first. C.O.D was a choice but expensive. I thought I would take a risk, I'd
>send the software and wait for payment or the return of the software. What
>I got was nothing. Finally after many email letters I recieved:
[interesting excuse deleted]

A little late than never, here's what I've been doing on all the 3B1
stuff I've sold.

1.  I've been asking for bank checks.  This protects both the buyer
and seller.  I am guaranteed that the check will not bounce.  The
buyer, by virtue of my signature and the fact that the check is made
payable to me, means that the buyer paid me for SOMETHING.  It's
a receipt, of sorts.

2.  All shipments are being made via Federal Express.  FedEx has
a package tracking number and all packages have a receipt.  I can
track a package if the buyer claims that s/he didn't recieve the
package.  The buyer can check the tracking number to assure that I
really sent the package.

This transaction costs a little more, but the benefits outweigh the
costs by far.  I've had nothing but good experiences with FedEx, and
packages arrive on time and in good shape.  My experiences with
selling things on the net have been very good, with one exception.
I hate selling things (I'm a programmer, darn it!), so this is a
good thing.

[Other details of horrible sale deleted]
>Well after that I just asked the software be returned.  I've been laid
>off.  I can relate.  I think I wouldn't even cared if it, at the time,
>arrived postage due but well, still nothing.  The email was bounced and
>well I gave up.

This is a very unfortunate experience I'm afraid, as I've known everyone
here to be honest and cooperative, overall.  The many boards and
kits I bought through folks on the net have always been positive, and
I would hate to see an experience like this spoil that trust.  If I
receieved a package from someone on the net that I never mailed for,
I would be the first to write/call that person to find out what's up.

You probably have little legal recall that wouldn't require you to
wait years through the courts and take loads of money to retain a
lawyer.  Still, I would (if you can afford it) consult with an
attorney to find out what your rights are to get payment for the
software, or get the software back.  The person you're dealing
with is trying to take the following "law" a step further:  if you
receive something you didn't order through the mail, it's your's, and
someone demands payment, you are not liable for it.  However,
there is also something called ethics, of which this person never
has heard.

>Now before I do my best to make sure everyone knows who this person is
>and what kind of person they will be dealing with.  Am I justified?
>Other than posting their name any other suggestions?

I suspect that posting their name would cause more problems than
it would solve.  I recommend that you make the e-mail message
available upon request.  This way, if someone is interested in
avoiding sales to this person (I am interested in knowing, by the
way), they can do so.  However, that person (who appears to be
a self-proclaimed attorney) can't claim that you slandered his
name on the net.  It'll only lead to an ugly flame-war, at the
very least.

That's my two-cents...for what it's worth...
-- 
Gil Kloepfer, Jr.              gil@limbic.ssdl.com   ...!ames!limbic!gil 
Southwest Systems Development Labs (Div of ICUS)   Houston, Texas
"There are beautiful people I wish would have never opened their mouths,
because such ugliness oozes out."  Philosophy Prof. at NYIT