Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Path: utzoo!utgpu!utstat!philip
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re:  TeX Printer(LONG)
Message-ID: <1991Feb2.151519.28432@utstat.uucp>
Organization: U of Toronto Statistics
References: <428@generic.UUCP> <1991Feb1.133159.86253@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> <11641@ucrmath.ucr.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 1991 15:15:19 GMT

In article <11641@ucrmath.ucr.edu> rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu (randy hyde) writes:
>>>>>>
>        Albert Chin is working on porting TeX to the GS, but has had to go
>through C source and ORCA/C as ORCA/Pascal cannot deal with arrays greater than
>256K.  Many people seem to be looking forward to a TeX implementation, it is
>the only way to do most Maths and Physical science documents.
><<<<<
>
>Actually, there are some quite good technical word processors on the PC and the
>MacIntosh.  Of course, people around here don't want to here stuff like that.
>I personally prefer Quark XPress combined with Expressionist,  Lotus Manuscript,
>and FrameMaker 2.1 over TeX and LaTeX any day.
>Of course, that's my opion.  Since I doubt we'll see such programs on the GS,
>TeX would be a reasonable substitute if it runs fast enough.
>*** Randy Hyde

I have wondered when one more critic of the GS would surface when the issue
of a really useful program for the GS( TeX) came up. We aren't on the
multitasking issue but we are talking about something I have been involved
with for years.

First of all, I'm going to be blunt. You don't know what you are talking
about. An equation editor ( such as Expressionist, MacEq'n, etc...) + a
word processor is no way to prepare mathematical documents of any length.
There are all kinds of problems to do with referencing, proofing, 
equation numbering,etc...INLINE equations.

As far as Manuscript goes, Lotus has ceased working on it. Moreover, while
it has a nice preview mode, it is not a scientific word processor. It is
more along the lines of WordPerfect5.1.

I have FrameMaker on my NeXT. This is a powerful DTP package, but nobody
even in the NeXT world( where I live a lot) considers it to be appropriate
for preparing a mathematical article for a journal. It is overkill in
one sense and too weak in another. It is in the tradition of cut/paste
methods as found with the equation editor approach. A simple thing like
alpha sup 2 sub k is hard to do, even alpha in a line, since you have to
use a mouse to get into the symbol font or go into FrameMath. The NeXT
comes with a very nice TeX ( the same as AmigaTeX which is excellent).
Most people prefer to use it. You are better off spending a couple of
weeks learning it than years fiddling around with the mouse.

FrameMaker on the Mac is no better. It is essentially the same as the
version on the NeXT, except that it is not usable without a full
page monitor. Both FrameMaker on the Mac and the NeXT "only" cost
$1000US, and the upgrade fees are very high.

There is a very nice program on the Mac, called MathWriter 2.0 which
will ship in a month. I have been involved with it in its testing
stage. It is WYSIWYG and will finally get rid of the editors. The 
price is $395. They  have a student version. It is the only serious
alternative to TeXTures on the Mac.

The PC has a WYSIWYG mathematical word processor called EXP, and it
has a very good TeX translator. There are many others, but I suspect
that this is the best of the lot. The AMS Bulletin has occasional
reviews.

The bottem line is that there really is no program that can compete
with TeX/troff for preparing technical theses, mathematical articles,
etc...and the approach you mention( editors with a DTP package) can't
be taken seriously.

Putting TeX onto the GS is feasible and is a worthwhile venture. TeX
is free( EXP and MathWriter are in the $400 range).

An equation editor for the GS would be useful for undergraduate
assignments.

Sorry to come across in such a harsh tone, but people who keep bringing
up the Mac and the PC as alternatives to workstations are just
fooling themselves. At the moment, they are simply not there software
wise, OS wise,etc...They are no more useful than a GS, Amiga, ST, etc...
The PC and the Mac are business oriented computers. They gave up on
higher education some time ago.

Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
Professor of Statistics
philip@utstat.toronto.edu