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From: greg@cica.cica.indiana.edu (Gregory TRAVIS)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next
Subject: Re: Should I get a NeXT?
Keywords: mac, next
Message-ID: <10509@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
Date: 5 Feb 91 22:30:47 GMT
References: <87442@unix.cis.pitt.edu> <15875@milton.u.washington.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Center for Innov. Comp. Appl., Bloomington, IN
Lines: 112

In <15875@milton.u.washington.edu> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:

>It is not likely that there will ever be much of a third-party
>software market for the NeXT.  It's too much of a fringe market, and
>likely to remain that way.  The proprietary status of NeXTstep and the
>limited platforms on which it is available scares many vendors away.
>We're seeing this now.

This is true of every new computer produced.  If by "proprietary" you
mean "Not the world's biggest keenest standard, like UNIX and X.  No one
will write software unless it's for UNIX and X."  Then try to substitute in:

	"The proprietary status of AmigaDOS..."	(2 million sold so far)
	"The proprietary status of Macintosh..."(bazillions sold so far)
	"The proprietary status of SunTools..."	(which is what my copy of
						 Frame runs under.  Lots sold)
	"The proprietary status of MS-DOS..."	(Enormous amounts sold)
	"The proprietary status of Windows 3..." ('nuff said)
	"The proprietary status of MVS..."	(too many sold)
	"The proprietary status of VMS..."	(blah, blah)
	"The proprietary status of TENEX..."	(Yes, Mark, TENEX)
	"The proprietary status of PostScript.."

On the other hand, if by "proprietary" you mean something for which one
can obtain the source, then I'll say it's already looking like getting
source to NeXT's Mach will be simply a matter of paying a fee to NeXT.
(disclaimer: For Universities/developers at least.  I doubt home users
will care).
I don't know about NeXTStep at this point, but I'm still waiting for
my commented source listing to MS-DOS.  I hate this disassembly stuff.

I can't think of a single innovative product in 'puterdom that didn't
start out as part of the "fringe market."

>There are, however, some dedicated vendors in the NeXT market who are
>producing good work.  If you like their products, you win; on the
>other hand if you don't you can't go to their competition.

Not yet.  This is a standard and well-understood aspect of a general
product's development.  Luckily all of the NeXT third-party products so
far have been of extremely high quality, so I haven't much wanted to
go elsewhere.  And I think that much of the system software can take the
credit for the calibre of what the third parties have been turning out.

>I do not believe the NeXT will ever match the PC in the marketplace.
>It may, in time, match the Mac; but I consider this optimistic.

If it ever gets close to matching the Mac I'll consider it a runaway
success.  No one can argue that the Mac has not become one of the
single most successful computer products ever developed.  I think NeXT
has a good chance to be as successful.

>Questions remain about the long-term prospects of NeXT the company.
>Although the circumstances of NeXT's management makes it freer to
>explore new innovations, it also makes it less sensitive to market
>considerations.  The pragmatism in abandoning the late unlamented
>optical disk is encouraging; however this must be muted by the
>excessive PC mentality being exhibited.  Be wary of the attitude that
>the vendor knows more about what the customer needs than the customer
>does.

If you're implying that NeXT may fold don't hold your breath.  Jobs was
extremely clever when it came to capitalization of his company.  They've
got the bucks to ride out the teething years.  And I hate the damn
floppy drive.  The optical disk certainly had reliability problems, but
one OD (even at $150 a pop) is a hell of a lot more pleasant to deal
with than 50-100 goddamn beer-covered floppies.  And, it looked like
software companies were beginning to get around the cost consideration
with ODs by allowing customers to send theirs in and have whatever
software implanted on them - avoiding media costs.

>If compatibility with your work environment is important, you should
>talk with your management about their long-term plans for the NeXT
>platform.  The odds are that they are adopting a "wait and see"
>attitude.  If the Pencomm (or other) X support fails to work out, we
>may see early retirement for the NeXTs here.  That in itself won't
>break (or make) NeXT, but that scenario played out at enough other
>sites can cause a difference.

Mark, you place far too much importance on the compatibility issue.  The
real issue is buying a machine that gets the job done.  Here we have
a couple of Ardent Titans (talk about company viability questions - and
these babies cost around $200K each) and some Silicon Graphics machines.
In both cases they're running SysV with supposed "Berkeley" enhancements.
The enhancements don't work too well, X11 on the Titans is flakey as they
come and the SGI doesn't even run X.  Yet the machines are in use 18 hours
a day.  I just don't get it.

The NeXT station, at academic pricing of about $3K is an unbeatable
value.  If I had the money to spend I would buy a NeXT station color
today over a Mac (for the same price) or any other "personal" computer.
Thank God they bought me one at work (and a NeXTDimension at that!).

>Remember: Computer ownership is not for the faint of heart.  The
>baseline monochrome loss-leader system, it is only 3 grand at academic
>pricing.  It is difficult to go wrong at that low a price.  You'll
>have to judge for yourself on the color system.

Absolutely right Mark.  And NeXT has taken much of the risk out of what
is traditionally a very risky purchase with a product line that's
unbeatable.  From $3K to $20K, the same software, the same system.  Pay
what you can afford and you always get a great deal.  The only tradeoff
is color performance and expandability.  The former is of no concern to
a large segment and the latter didn't hurt the original Mac much.  And
NeXT at least gives you a choice.

> _____   | ____ ___|___   /__ Mark ("Gaijin") Crispin "Gaijin! Gaijin!"
[a megabyte or two of .sig deleted]
-- 
Gregory R. Travis                Indiana University, Bloomington IN 47405
greg@cica.cica.indiana.edu       Center for Innovative Computer Applications
Disclaimer:  I heart hate email.