Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!olivea!mintaka!bloom-beacon!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines
From: don@zardoz.coral.COM (Don Dewar)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: OPEN LOOK announced first (was: Re: Motif/Openlook, is there a trend?
Message-ID: <9102052131.AA27315@zardoz.coral.com>
Date: 5 Feb 91 21:31:57 GMT
References: <TOML.91Feb4085753@marvin.Solbourne.COM>
Sender: daemon@athena.mit.edu (Mr Background)
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 89


) Return-Path: <uunet!expo.lcs.mit.edu!xpert-mailer>
) Date: 4 Feb 91 13:57:53 GMT
) From: uunet!marvin.solbourne.com!toml (Tom LaStrange)
) Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc.
) Subject: Re: OPEN LOOK announced first (was: Re: Motif/Openlook, is there a trend?
) Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
) References: <1991Jan23.164403@ecovsb.ncsu.edu>, <2977@sodium.ATT.COM>
) Sender: uunet!expo.lcs.mit.edu!xpert-request
) To: xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu
) 
) It must be Monday :-)
) 
)    Decision Criteria Added After the Membership Feedback Meeting
)        Intrinsics Based Solution [based on a desire for an object-oriented
) 	   approach and previous moves in this direction by NIST and X/Open].
)        Implementation Language [stick with C for now, not C++].
)        Open Architecture [viable for at least 5 years]
) 
) Aren't "object-oriented" and "C" mutually exclusive?  Here's a great quote
) from the Xt tutorial at the 1988 X Technical Conference.
) 
) "C is inadequate for object oriented programming"
) Charles Haynes and Joel McCormack, Digital Equipment Corp.

This is definitely not true.  Object oriented programming can be done
using a traditionally functional programming language.  It does,
however, usually result in some very difficult to follow code.  In
addition, "C" does not do much enforcment, such as strong typing and
the such.  I have seed a few attempts at using the object oriented
programming model using "C".  One product that does this is Cscape,
which is a character oriented user interface programming system.  It
works pretty well, but if you ever try to look at the code and figure
out what is going on, you will get a headache.

) 
) 
)    For the record, I'll state again that I think Sun's biggest mistake
)    was in trying to release N toolkits on the unsuspecting world.  It's
)    all very fine to say Open Look is toolkit independant - so's Motif, and
)    there are at least four Motif-compliant (to one extent or another)
)    toolkits in existance* - but OSF is only selling one, and there's only
)    one which I have to worry about being supported when I move from
)    platform to platform.  With Open Look I have no idea which the vendor
)    will support.  Does _Sun_ even claim to support anything other than
)    XView?  I doubt it.  Their version of libXt.a has pathnames that
)    point at /usr/lib/X11, but the version of SunOS4.0 I've used doesn't
)    even have that directory.  That doesn't look like support to me.
) 
) I love this statement.  The ONLY Motif-compliant toolkit is the one produced
) by OSF.  I don't want to speak for OSF and they can correct me if their
) policies have changed but OSF will not and has no plans to certify other
) toolkits as "Motif-compliant".
) 
) I asked an OSF person last October if they planned on certifying any other
) toolkits and the response was:
) 
)    "Why would we want to do that?"
) 
) The only thing those of us struggling to provide a Motif-like toolkit can
) say is that you can write Motif compliant applications with the toolkit.
) That's it.
) 

I agree with the former person's comment.  The fact that there are so
few producers of Motif toolkits, makes Motif much easier figure out.
There is not OpenMotif or MotifLook or MotifView or MotifWindows or
Motif Intrisics Toolkit (MIT?) to try to keep straight.  All the
various pieces that make up an OpenLook (or whatever ) are all part of
a Motif.  In addition, I feel more confident that the Motif sources I
get will work and be as hardware independent as possible.

) --
) Tom LaStrange        toml@Solbourne.COM
) 
) 



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