Xref: utzoo comp.org.eff.talk:1378 misc.legal:23879
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!bu.edu!att!att!mcdchg!tellab5!vpnet!louisg
From: louisg@vpnet.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Sophistication of federal investigators
Message-ID: <1991Jan14.000414.10863@vpnet.chi.il.us>
Date: 14 Jan 91 00:04:14 GMT
References: <1991Jan10.035939.26587@ddsw1.MCS.COM> <286@kumr.UUCP> <1991Jan13.191251.28841@ddsw1.MCS.COM>
Organization: Vpnet Public Access
Lines: 25

Just to clear up one point:

Doc Ripco was not charged either.  His computers were just seized.  No charges  have been filed against him, and I don't think they will be.

Isn't it obvious what the SS really did?  They got a list of boards that carry  anarchy/hacking/phreaking/etc. files and busted them jsut to find out what they had on them.  At the least, they got rid of what they consider a nuisance, and  at most they found something illegal with which to prosecute.

They had no real probable cause in any of these situations which I can see past the point that these boards had text files which talked about borderline things.The SS was just sending in a line to see what they could catch.  Unfortunately  the line destroyed a lot of equipment and reputations, not to mention it is
probably causing Jefferson et. al. to roll over in their graves.

It is also obvious that the agents carrying out these warrants have no real     knowledge about computers.  The "leads" they follow are due more or less to 
confusion about computers.  I don't think Agent Foley was malicious when he cited the Kermit explanation on the warrant affidavit.  I think he didn't know what
the hell Kermit was and it looked suspicious since it was in conjunction with
a decipering scheme.  The judge obviously didn't know what Kermit was otherwise he wouldn't have granted the warrant on just that.

Of course, I'm not telepathic, nor am I Agent Foley.  I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.  The REAL problem is that the law enforcement agencies, the      courts, and the public in general don't know enough about how things go on
down here and how computers operate to effectively and FAIRLY make decisions on
certain aspects.  This is where the EFF can excel, Mr. Denninger.  I think it isdoing a good job right now.

The federal agencies have always kept records on people, but rarely do they     persecute innocent people.  The reason they have done so here is that they
don't know what the heck they're doing.  We need the EFF and power
organizations like them to help society come to terms with the technology.

I'm not condoning what they're doing, but I am trying to point out that it
might not have happened if people were more educated about what is really
going on.