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From: glmwc@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Matt Crowd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to improve Workbench 2.0!
Message-ID: <1991Feb9.052424.214@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
Date: 9 Feb 91 05:24:24 GMT
References: <7662@sugar.hackercorp.com> <1991Feb4.012848.13868@marlin.jcu.edu.au> <1991Feb8.035953.20963@NCoast.ORG>
Organization: James Cook University of North Queensland
Lines: 74

In article <1991Feb8.035953.20963@NCoast.ORG> davewt@NCoast.ORG (David Wright) writes:
>In article <1991Feb4.012848.13868@marlin.jcu.edu.au> glmwc@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Matt Crowd) writes:
>>>How does Workbench know if you have programs running or not?
>>
>>You mean the Amiga resource tracking is this bad!  I'm appalled.
>	And just what does resource tracking have to do with it? You don't need
>WorkBench to run software, and in fact, any program can use the CloseWorkBench
>function to *try* and close WorkBench if there are no more active WORKBENCH
>LAUNCHED programs. This is what he really should have said. If you run a
>program from the CLI, you may WANT WorkBench to close. And it is trivial to
>have a program running that can look at the keyboard and reopen WorkBench if
>a certain key is pressed.
>	Do you complain that your car's transmission lets you shift into
>reverse while you are doing 55? Or shift from 5th to 1st at 85? Why should
>the machine pretend to assume it knows best?

Just because this group is comp.sys.amiga.advocacy doesn't mean you
flame everybody who tries to make a comment on it.  Ok, so I didn't
think before I posted, and I realized afterwards that WB wouldn't
be able to tell.  The main point is that I have seen people boot up
the machine, go through the menus and select quit.  Then wonder
what happened.  People do NOT read manuals unless they really have
to, and they shouldn't be scared of the machine.  I think the
machine should be very user friendly, that's what sells Macs.  Power
users should be able to use the CLI and config the system the way they
want, but you shouldn't scare people away.  C= are obviously trying
with WB 2.0 to make the machine easier to use and this whole thread
was intended to come up with some more suggestions.  

(as for the cars comment, well i'd say it won't be long before
you see cars around that do stop you from doing this, if they
don't exist already)

>>>> 22) Can't empty trash unless trash can lid open!  Stupid.
>...
>>If the trashcan window is selected, it should know!  It checks if
>>the icon is selected, not if the trash window is open and selected.
>	A window has nothing to do with an icon, and vice-versa. Why should
>an Intuition object (the window) know anything about a WorkBench-specific
>object (the icon)? That would defeat the whole point of an object-oriented
>programming environment. This isn't a Mac, where selecting a window pops it
>to the front. Whether the window is open or not, or selected or not is
>irrelevant to whether the trashcan ICON is selected. When you have the
>trashcan WINDOW selected, you are working INSIDE the trashcan. This would be
>like holding your hand inside the trashcan while you are trying to empty it.
>When you click on the trashcan ICON you are talking about the trashcan as
>an object itself, including the programs inside it.
>

I don't care about this object orientated rubbish. (I still use
C not C++ :-) .  Think about the user not the programmer.  They double
click on the trashcan to see what's in it when running low on space.
The window opens and has file X in it (the window is selected).  They
decide they don't want it, so they go up to the menu and select 
Empty Trash, and it doesn't work!   People didn't buy 7 million Macs
because they are power object orientated machines, they buy them 
for the software and because any idiot who knows nothing about computers
can use them.  C= can't do much about the software (except pay out
huge sums to Microsoft etc.) but they can make the machine easy to
use.  It doesn't have to get in the way of people who know how to use
the machine.  They just need to get some people who use all types
of computers to stuff around with the Amiga and see what they do and
what they find hard to do.

BTW, I like Macs, IBMS, Amigas and UNIX all for one reason or another.
Some people in this group need to get out into the real world and
use Exel on a Mac, AutoCAD Rel 11 on a 486, etc. and see that people don't
buy other computers besides Amigas because they are stupid. At least
not all the time :-)   After seeing the others I still bought an Amiga
though.

>			Dave

Colin Adams