Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: lindborg@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Lindborg) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Soul winners Message-ID: Date: 8 Feb 91 07:52:55 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 56 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article oopdavid@ubvmsa.cc.buffalo.edu (David J. Rodman) writes: >In article , linborg@cs.wash >ington.edu (Jeff Linborg) writes... > >>I believe there is no life after death (just like the Jews did up until >around 250 BC...) just as firmly as you believe there is. > >>There may indeed be a god, but if it is the god you describe I doubt >very much that he is either perfect of loving. > >Well you sure said a mouth full. Let me expound on your certainties and >bring up a few variables into your equation of our God and life after death. [Wonderful story deleted for brevity.] First of all, let me say how happy I am for you and your wife! It think its wonderful that she beat the odds and confused the 'experts'. I, in fact, have a similar story. My aunt was diagnosed with cancer some years ago. She went through painful chemotherapy for some time. However, her diagnosis deteriorated and she was given less than a year to live. Some months later, the cancer was completely gone. None at all! Of course the doctors were at a loss as to explain this "remission". That was over 6 years ago and it hasn't come back to date. The difference between your story and mine? My aunt is an athiest and still is. She choose to see it as a medical anomily and not an act of a god. I believe that there is MUCH the medical sciences do not know yet and, hence, there is much they can't explain (yet). When someone dies for some unknown reason we don't assume it is the act of a god... rather it is an unexplained tradgedy. Conversly I believe when something wonderful happens to someone it is an unexplained happening... not an act of a god. >Secondly, to respond to your ideas of the lack of life after death, there [an out of body experience account deleted...] Very interesting indeed! I have read much on this subject myuself. I find the subject enormously interesting to say the least. One thing I notice, however, is that the VAST majority of near death experiences are *possitive* regardless of the persons religious or nonreligious beliefs. I am an agnostic... I believe there *may* be a god (although I'm skeptical), and there is almost certainly a dimension of existence that we as humans cannot percieve readily. However, I reject the Christian god (and by association the gods of Islam and Judaism) as well as the gods of Hinduism and Zoroanstrianism and Greek gods etc... because I believe them to be creations of men to serve human purposes (ie abating a fear of death by stating that you can obtain 'personal imortality' through this religion...) and I find fundamental flaws in their descriptions of their gods. >These stories are to be shared by all. I hope they make the agnostics >skeptics and the skeptics believers. I will not give up my faith nor will >I refuse to believe in life after death ever again. Nor will I. Although I readily admit I may be wrong... we'll all find out soon enough! Jeff Lindborg