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From: gast@maui.cs.ucla.edu (David Gast)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.activism,talk.environment,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Advertising is bad (no it's not, don't be an idiot)
Message-ID: <1991Feb12.045629.9917@cs.ucla.edu>
Date: 12 Feb 91 04:56:29 GMT
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>But they shop around to places *who's advertising they have seen*.

Speak for yourself.  I prefer places that I have not seen advertise.
I certainly consider expensive ads to be a waste of money and not worth
the cost.

There is a company--a warehouse store--out here that I have never seen
an ad for in any media, but almost everyone I know has been in it.  Great
prices.

>Unless they happen to stumble on to something, which
>also happens.  Even in this case, tho, if they haven't seen the store
>advertise, there's a good chance they won't go in.

Again speak for yourself.

>Advertising also legitimizes an establishment

Where do you dream this stuff up?

>People
>distrust a place where they feel it's so tiny they can't even afford to
>advertise.

I never felt that way.  I have never walked into a store and thought "I'd
buy from them, but they are too small to advertise."

>Haven't you ever looked for something in the Yellow Pages?
>(advertising, btw)  Do you call up all the little itty-bitty phone-
>number-only listings, or do you call the guy with the half-page ad?

I call the guy with the centerfold.  :-)  Seriously, I only look at the
listings, not the display ads.

>(I know, I know, *you* call the little itty-bitty ones.  Obviously, the
>silly folks buying the half-page ads are wasting their money.)

That's right!!  And charging the customer too much.

>> They try the different stores and find out which one is cheaper. If they
>> talk to a friend who says "yeah, Bob's is cheaper", they'll go there.
>> Word of mouth WORKS.

>Of course it works.  It works Wonderfully.  But it's slow.  It's *horri-
>bly* slow.

So I should believe all the lies--all the claims to have the lowest prices
when you can see another ad on the same page with lower prices?  At least,
make the companies be honest.

>Your company will go out of business waiting for someone to
>show up based on word-of-mouth.

When I want to buy something, I usually ask someone if they have any
recommendations.  For example, I needed to get my monitor repaired.
Do you think I looked in the Yellow Pages for the biggest ad and called
that number?  No, I got a personal recommendation and called them up.
I never even considered looking in the phone book, the newspaper, etc.
When I needed a smog certificate, I did the same thing.  It never even
occurred to me to consider looking at ads.

>What do you do if you're a new busi-
>ness?  How you get someone to come in the for the very first time and
>start the word-of-mouth going?

If you wait six months for the yellow pages to come out, you are already
out of business unless you have that word-of-mouth going.

>Once people know you and learn of your existance thru word-of-mouth, how
>do you remind them you're still there?

Bother them with junk phone calls day and night?  Kidnap their son?  :-)
I don't need reminding and I don't want reminding.

>Advertising allows new companies to enter the
>market and allows existing companies to persuade customers from the
>competition.

New companies can't afford to advertise like the established companies.
Sprint, MCI, and AT&T are engaged in massive advertising propaganda now.
Is there any content?  No.  Are there new entrants?  No.  Are prices rising?
Yes.

>you suppose I'd find out that Luckys is the "low-price leader" if they
>didn't advertise?

I asked someone who has lived here a long time which store has the lowest
prices.  He mentioned a warehouse place, then Lucky's.  But Trader Joe's
does very little advertising, and the prices there are even lower.

>This is totally off the subject.  I'm not trying to debate you, I'm
>trying to give you an education.

Thanks, but I already have my MBA and advertising is mostly lies.  Why
can't you face up to it?  Or provide specific ads that you think are
honest and not manipulative?

>> >> Advertising is evil.

>Maybe you should give up looking for a job, since it seems to be against
>your principles.

Who's looking for a job?  I am on Welfare and food stamps.  :-)

>I know!  The companies will hear about you by word-of-mouth!
>Rii-ii-iight!  Better hope your mother hasn't rented out your room yet.

But how will anyone find out it's for rent--she doesn't advertise?

>I already toss plenty of junk mail, so I doubt if I'd
>even notice the difference.  (Please remember "the Chipmunk", so I'll
>know it's you.  My interests are computers, software, sailboating, 
>photography, and (near-)naked women.)

So these people should send in a typical advertising fashion ads for
baby needs, cars, 900 numbers, and other junk you have no interest in.
Why?  How is the new store down the block from you going to get you
to come in and buy a stuffed bear if he does not advertise?  How will
you even know the pedophile is in business?


>Look, instead of complaining to me about the ads, why don't you try it?
>Find a particular ad that really disgusts you (for reasons *other* than
>simply being advertising) and write them a letter!  Chances are pretty
>good your success will be greater than you think.  Companies do not
>stay in business alienating their customers.

I wrote a letter recently and guess what?  No response.  Not even the
courtesy of a ``You, sir, are full of shit.''

>I truly doubt if you've ever read any one of those economics textbooks
>you refer to.  Otherwise, you'd know better.  Statements like these
>reaffirm what I suspected, that is, that you have not the slightest 
>notion of what you are talking about.

Actually, you are confusing marketing books and economics books.


>> >asylvain@felix.UUCP (Alvin "the Chipmunk" Sylvain)

>> Steven Miale

David Gast