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From: rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AMIGAstation...
Message-ID: <1991Feb12.083155.10531@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>
Date: 12 Feb 91 08:31:55 GMT
References: <1991Feb11.005426.24174@sugar.hackercorp.com> <12013@helios.TAMU.EDU> <1991Feb12.053906.10441@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: daemon@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu (Lucifer Maleficius)
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In article <1991Feb12.053906.10441@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> mitroo@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Varun Mitroo) writes:
>In article <12013@helios.TAMU.EDU> n177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>>In article <1991Feb11.005426.24174@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>>
>>>That's fine for getting Amiga users to buy them, but that isn't going to
>>>get them any new market. For someone who wants a UNIX box, why would they
>>>get an A3000UX instead of a NeXT (or for that matter a SPARCstation)?
>>>-- 
>>
>>3000UX over the NeXT:
>>- slots.  the only NeXT models with slots cost at least $2k more than
>>  the base 3000UX.  The base 3000UX is only $500 more than the base  
>>  NeXTstation.  Compare this with $1.5 - $2k for the base cube over
>>  the 3000UX.  You can do some things with NeXT's SCSI, but a lot of
>>  it isn't possible without really bad kludges.
>>
>I think people are missing the point of the workstation market.  Imagine
>having a lab full of unix boxes.  They are all connected on an ethernet
>network, have a small hard drive to boot and swap, and get most other stuff
>through the network.  WHY would someone need each box to have 5 slots inside?
>
>The answer: you don't.  Lots of computer companies have realized this.  Sun
>has the SPARCstation SLC, a diskless computer that is only usable on a
>network.  NeXT now has the NeXTstation - small hard drive, no expansion slots,
>fast cpu, built-in ethernet.
>
>Now imagine a lab full of A3000UX.  Every one of them has empty slots - maybe
>one is used for ethernet.  All these slots are doing nothing, except driving
>the cost of the machine up.  NeXT realized this with the cube, and very
>efficiently pared down both the hardware and software:  no expansion slots but
>lots of internal memory and hard drive capability, no Lisp (removed from the
>included software), no Mathematica (except for higher ed.) - software licensing
>can be expensive!  If you need expansion or need a server, buy a cube.
>
>It's wonderful that each and every one of the Amiga3000UX can run AmigaDos,
>and each could have many serial ports, and each could have a Video Toaster,
>but of what use are these for unix boxes?  The important thing is that they
>are well-integrated, have nice clear displays, and are FAST.
>
>The 3000UX does make a good unix box, but there is no reason to drive up its
>cost with those unnecessary options:  expansion slots, AmigaDos, etc.  Maybe
>Commodore should realize this and come out with an AMIGAstation: 100 meg drive,
>high res monitor, ethernet, no expansion.  They could probably shave off over
>$1000 from the price and have a nice fast integrated unix box.
>
>				Varun Mitroo
>				mitroo@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu
>

 One point your missing. UNIX isn't what it used to be. UNIX is slowly
becoming the operating system of choice for home computers. UNIX at home,
not in the computer lab, or on a $7000 ethernet linkup. UNIX used to
be for the big-multiuser mainframe systems, now PCs are starting to run it,
and now Unix has been ported to virtually every platform.

a Diskless computer won't work in the home, what the hell are you supposed
to hook it up to? the telephone?
 A fileserver at 2400 bps?

  What about all the students and/or UNIX owners at home?


Then again, this is just a sly way NeXT users can hid the 'real' price of a 
working NeXT system.  Why not make a minislab? Make the NeXT diskless, 
with only 2mb of ram, and no DSP. Why, they could sell an 040 system for $2000
.

This overlooks the real cost of the system. To get a NeXT up to real
performance, you need to network it with a bunch of lab computers and
terminal/file servers. These terminal/file servers aren't free, they cost
$$$, and I think they should be included in the price. Otherwise, why not
just sell NeXT keyboards for $1000 and tell NeXT users if they want to
use their computers, walk into a computer lab and 'jack in.'