Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!cc.helsinki.fi!jalkio From: jalkio@cc.helsinki.fi Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: A3000UX - Born to run UNIX SVR4 Message-ID: <1991Feb13.155024.4860@cc.helsinki.fi> Date: 13 Feb 91 15:50:23 GMT References: <581.27a97594@vger.nsu.edu> <8298@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> <1991Feb12.080356.22413@portia.Stanford.EDU> Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 94 In article <1991Feb12.080356.22413@portia.Stanford.EDU>, bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: > In article <1991Feb11.141219.4829@cc.helsinki.fi> jalkio@cc.helsinki.fi writes: >>In article <1991Feb8.030757.22974@portia.Stanford.EDU>, bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: >>> In article <1991Feb7.151106.4795@cc.helsinki.fi> jalkio@cc.helsinki.fi writes: >>>> >>>>BTW, when you only benchmark a 68030 Amiga with 68030 NeXT you must take >>>>in to consideration that what NeXT lacks in speed it wins in >>>>flexibility... (Display Postscript, the programming/user interface). >>> >>> Flexibility? Did he say FLEXIBILITY? The Amiga INVENTED flexibility. >> >>Could you be a bit more specific, please? > > I wouldn't think I needed to be, here. Well, if you can't be more specific, that's okay for me. I just can't find the justification for your claim. > But how about expansion capability? > How expandible is a SPARC? How expandible is a NeXT? It's been hashed and > re-hashed, but this is an absolutely valid point. Expandibility IS an issue. Depends on what you do with your machine. Please read one of my latest posting about expandability. I, for one, rather take the NeXT goodies than some slots I wouldn't even need. > Always has been since the 1000. That was a gripe of mine back then, too. > From processors to DSPs to graphics boards to sound boards-- it's a question > about the future. Can you honestly say that the 040 Slab will *not* be > obsolete in five years? With an open-ended architecture, I can say this about Yup. I can honestly say that 040 Slab won't be obsolete. (Or perhaps NeXT will come with a motherboard upgrade, who knows. In that case 040 Slab will be obsolete.) > the 3000. > >>> I've been using an '040 NeXT for about two months now. The thing's still as >>> slow as a dog, even when switching/moving windows. What speed *is* provided >>> by bogging down the '040 (as Display Postscript will do) is completely lost if >>> it's networked to cubes (as the one I use is) and in page-flipping on a 100-Meg >>> hard disk. The damn thing has taken a full *two minutes* to resize an .eps >>> pic. Way to go, Jobs. Them's some brilliant engineering. >> >>Sounds pretty strange. How can it be that 040 NeXT wins Sparcstation 1+ >>on several benchmarks? > > I don't doubt that it does, if you take it off a network. Uh-huh. So it is '040 Slab's fault if the '030 Cube with not much memory is slow? Very logical, indeed. :-) Why not upgrade the Cube on the network to '040? > >>Have you done any benchmarking on the 040 NeXT versus the fastest >>Amigas? > > I'm talking about the interface here. I can honestly say that Display > Postscript on my 040 Slab is SLOWER in look and feel than Intuition on my > vanilla 1000 with a blitter. Of course it's more sophisticated than > Intuition in its pre-2.0 form, but for responsiveness, you can't beat > Intuition. So, it is the question of sophistication and speed. Would you rather use MS-DOS or some windowing system? And remember, NeXTStep is on top of Unix. Let's see what happens when you put X-Windows and Unix on '030 (or '040) Amiga... > >>BTW, if you only mean that the interface seems slow, the reason might be >>that you have used a machine with only 8MB memory - that causes >>considerable virtual memory swapping. 16MB or more would make an end to >>that problem. >> >>As a final statement: Are you trying to convince the people that "040 >>NeXTs are slow as dogs"? Sounds very funny. > > I don't think I'm trying to convince anyone. All anyone has to do is sit down > and use it for any length of time to SEE that the 040 is severely crippled by > Display Postscript. I've seen the '040 Slabs. I will actually have one in few weeks. The interface isn't noticably slow - and for what it does, it is fast. (I will upgrade the memory from 8MB to 16 or 20 MB, though - to avoid swapping.) > >>>> Jouni Alkio, Helsinki, Finland > > Dave Hopper | /// The Amiga: | The great strength of the total- > | __ /// | itarian state is that it forces > bard@jessica. | \\\/// The Cybernetic | those who fear it to imitate it. > Stanford.EDU | \XX/ Revolution is NOW! | --Adolph Hitler Jouni Alkio, Helsinki, Finland