Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!cc.helsinki.fi!jalkio From: jalkio@cc.helsinki.fi Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: How to beat a NeXT Message-ID: <1991Feb13.161930.4861@cc.helsinki.fi> Date: 13 Feb 91 16:19:30 GMT References: <7692@sugar.hackercorp.com> <481@cronos.metaphor.com> <1991Feb11.023952.19951@NCoast.ORG> <1991Feb12.043247.6171@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 136 In article <1991Feb12.043247.6171@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, rjc@mole.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > > Ok, you asked for the real comparison? Well here it is. ---- I'll make it a bit more real: > > The Amiga 500 (slab) vs NeXT (slab) > NeXT Slab $3200 > Amiga 500 $500 > 040 CPU board $1500 * Hmm. _Is_ there such a board? Or just a rumor? Is the rest of the machine designed so, that it will someday accommodate a '040? > Unix $500-800 ? PLUS the price for some Unix graphics interface - and better take the best you can find. > A2024 $600 ? What kind of display is the A2040? You should get a 2-page DTP display if you tried to be fair. On _Workstation market_ you need _High quality_ graphics. Most people who are using the machine something else than video graphigs rather take the 1200x850 4-shade system than some not-so-high-quality color with a small monitor. And for _real_ video graphics, you need 24-bits or more. > ---------------------------------- --------------------------------- > Total: $3200-3400 $3200 I guess the price will be more. Add to this that NeXT has the DSP and 16-bit CD-quality stereo-audio, this is not cheap. It also comes with complete programming environment. And if you are an university customer, you get Mathematica (might be worth almost $1000) etc. etc. > > * - The 040 board will includes a cheap SCSI controller ($200) > cheap ethernet, and a 100mb HD and 8mb of ram. > > (note: If this were integrated and priced educationally the ram/A500/Unix/2024 > would be cheaper) > > Comparisons: > The A500 will run AmigaDOS and AT&T Unix (1 point for the Amiga!) What's the point in AmigaDOS? How is it better than NeXTStep? > Has color (1 point) Read above. > Has 1 expansion slot (heheh 1 point) Not if you put the '040 in it. (I don't know if you put it there, actually.) > NeXT has DSP (1 point for NeXT) > > Summary: > > While this is a fantasy comparison, it just shows that you can take > just about any computer, strip it down, add in an 040 and it will > price about the same as the NeXT. > Not only that, My A500 slab STILL looks more attractive than the NeXT > because it also comes with AmigaDOS, an expansion slot and color (optional > monitor). I think that MOST people would prefer a Slab to your super-A500. Really. > > The recent threads in this conference really depress me. People are > acting like Apple/Ibm. > > Remember these old lines: > "You don't need multitasking!" > "You don't need color!" > "You don't need sound!" > > and now > "You don't need expansion slots." Oh, you can't have EVERYTHING for $3000. You just have to decide _what_ you need most. (Amiga, for example doesn't really have sound on $3000 range - only because of the insufficent quality for anything more than games.) > Sheesh, what's next? "You don't need a computer, use pencil and paper." > > Some of those old lines came from Apple and IBM who used to brainwash > their consumers telling them what they do and don't need. > > > One or two NeXT users mentioned 'If I ever want to upgrade my > CPU or graphics , I'll just sell my NeXT and buy a different model.' > THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION. It's one of the reasons expansion slots were > invented. I don't want my computer to become obsolete every 1 or 2 > years when a new processor revision/hardware add-on becomes availible forcing > me to buy a new model. The most important function of expansion slots is to make it possible to a computer have some extra hardware functionality. They are not there to make the computer "live forever". Face it, if you have a computer with the main board on slot, the only thing that you have to keep is the case. And cases are not that expensive. So, that's why I think it's not much different to first buy a machine with no slots and then change to a same kind of machine with slots _when you actually NEED those slots_. You don't loose much. Just change the case and buy the slots, really. (And if you don't happen to need the slots, you actually win.) > The more expensive computers are, the more open they should be. I don't > mind selling a C64 to get a C128. But if a $10,000 computer becomes > obsolete every 1 or 2 years, its a problem. (Imagine how difficult it > would be to replace all the computers on the internet everytime a > new Ethernet card/software became availible.) > > My end opinion is that the slab is not the 'NeXT generation of computers > for the 90s.' In 1, perhaps 2 years it could become obsoleted by an > A3000 with a faster 040 card, 050,etc. More likely is, that NeXTstation will be obsoleted with a NeXTstation II with '050 (or perhaps there will be a motherboard upgrade). What do you do with your '030 on the A3000 when you uprade to '040, anyway? > > The Cube may be able to compete, but the price needs to fall. Jouni Alkio, Helsinki, Finland