Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!gatech!udel!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jm9t+ From: jm9t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Josh Brian Mastronarde) Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc Subject: Re: LEGALITY OF SELLING SOFTWARE Message-ID: Date: 13 Feb 91 08:19:06 GMT References: <3929@orbit.cts.com> <38899@cup.portal.com>, <70629@microsoft.UUCP> Distribution: usa Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 47 In-Reply-To: <70629@microsoft.UUCP> Excerpts From Captions of netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc: 12-Feb-91 Re: LEGALITY OF SELLING SOF.. Fred FREELAND@microsoft. (1980) >The whole point is, that if you are a normal person, with normal faculties and >a normal understanding of the language, opening the disk envelope is, by >definition, agreement with the terms of the licensing agreement. It doesn't >matter if you think it's bogus or not. If you opened the envelope you have >agreed, like it or not. Um, for this to be valid, wouldn't I have to agree to the license *before* I purchased the software? What if I don't agree to the terms? "Agreement" implies that I have a choice of either agreeing to the terms, or walking away from the deal. Last I checked, most software houses charged a 15% restocking fee for software. But Microsoft will gladly refund the full purchase price if I don't like the license, right? I didn't think so. Take for example any other contract situation. When I buy a house, until I actually *sign* any papers, I can abort the deal with no expense, right? (Not including lawyer, bank, or any other indirect fees. I mean I haven't paid the seller anything). Once I buy the house, both parties are bound by the contract signed before the sale. Your license agreement would be like the seller putting a big note on the front door: "You have not really purchased this house. You have purchased a license to use the attic on alternate Tuesdays. Do not open this door unless you agree to these terms. If not, you can get 85% of your money back" I think the key here is that I purchase the software *before* the license is pointed out to me. I consider the act of purchasing something to be an agreement in and of itself. I fork over money to someone and in return I expect free and full use and ownership of something (provided that the sale is legal in the first place). Of course this use is restricted by *government* laws (such as restrictions on concealed weapons, radar detectors, copyright laws, etc). While it might be possible to enact an agreement without a signature, it would have to take place BEFORE the purchase took place. That is, without a contract prior to sale (whether verbal or oral), the contract of sale is the binding agreement of the transaction, not whatever gibberish Microsoft prints inside the package to scare people into believing them. -Josh Mastronarde -jm9t+@andrew.cmu.edu "This is completely original, hand-typed. Not a .sig" I don't think there's anyone stupid enough to think CMU would want me to speak for them, is there?