Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!info-high-audio-request From: tmajni%sequent.uucp@RELAY.CS.NET (Tim Majni) Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end Subject: Re: Taming Thiels Message-ID: <9462@uwm.edu> Date: 11 Feb 91 13:48:41 GMT Sender: news@uwm.edu Lines: 107 Approved: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu MY SYSTEM EXPERIENCES Before I comment on your story I must tell you my own experiences. I had a old stereo purchased in college 15 years ago which had become very tired. I wanted to get some better stuff so I purchased a surround sound system which I sold within three months to get better stuff: Mission PCMII CD player (a tad better than Icon) Adcom GFT-555 tuner Adcom GFP-555 preamp Adcom GFA-555 amp Theil CS1.2s Cheap wire and interconnects After six months of listening and building my CD library I wanted to improve my sound so I tried all sorts of new equipment at home. Six months after that I have definite opinions and solid experience with all sorts of high end gear, and my system has changed some in the process: Mission PCMII CD player --place holder for Theta Digital Processor-- Adcom GFT-555 Quicksiler Audio preamp Threshold S200 amp Theil CS1.2s Bradley Audio Interconnects Cheap monster wire (plan OCOS upgrade) I refuse to buy gear just because it is expensive. I must hear a major difference in sound before I consider upgrading, and it must be a reasonable value (i.e. I won't buy a $12K STAX processor). RECOMMENDATIONS I believe in the stereo hierarchy: 1. Source 2. Preamp 3. Amp 4. Speakers You can't get good sound unless you have a good signal. The speakers are the last in the chain. They are important, but the old addage of GIGO (garbage in garbage out) still applies. Speakers will soon be the cheapest part of my stereo, with source the most expensive. The CAL ICON is a great piece for the price point (~$750). Better does exist but it will cost a lot more. I plan to upgrade to the Theta DSPro Basic when I can afford it (~$2000). It was absolutely stunning when I demoed it at home. The detail and sound stage was simply the BEST I've ever heard. The difference was as big as when I replaced the Adcom with the Threshold. You now have a piece that is better than the SONY you had and with sound hard to beat by a large margin without something like a Theta upgrade. Yes folks, it blew the Wadia X32 away as well. I really liked the MS Line Drive Deluxe when I demoed it, but when I opened the top and saw just wire, pots, switches, and the $1000 price tag I balked. The build quality and clarity was good but dynamic range was lacking. I used a Superphon CD MAXX (~$400) with a passive circut until I could afford the tube driven Quicksilver. It's very open, airy, dynamic, tank-like build quality, and a bargin at ~$1600. IMHO Theil make one of the most revealing speakers on the market. My baby CS1.2s continue to show major improvement when upgrading electronics. The CS2.0s are the same caliber with better bass extension. The CS2.0s are reported to be more sensetive to system matching than the CS1.2s. I have home demoed the CS3.5s and they exhibit electronics dependancies in spades. Unlike so many box speakers Theil sound much better with better electronics. They shine with really good electronics, but can be mediocre to disappointing with mid-fi electronics like Adcom and B&K. With the front end CD, line control, and speakers that you own you can demonstrate this very easily by home demoing a Levinson, Threshold, Melos, Counterpoint, Aragon, or any other ~$2500 amp. You should demo the B&K monoblocks as well. I've never heard them but have read good things about them. Now about wires. This is the last area for me to improve my system. The better the system, and the closer to the hierarchy you adhere, the more noticable difference wires will make. Until I had the Quicksilver and Threshold wire would have been a waste of money. Seth Bradley brought some of his new interconnect wires (~$200) over to my house for a show-down with wires from some of my favorite dealers in the are. We had the likes of Monster Interlink 500 ($35), MIT PC Squared ($75), MIT CVT ($350), and Madrigal interconnects ($150). I was skeptical about spending more that $50 for a pair of interconnects before this test. The cheap wires from MIT and Monster where blown away by the more expensive wire. There was oodles more clarity and information present. This was easily measured by using a test CD for sound stage imageing. All the better wires demonstrated around a %30-%40 wider sound stage which easily extended well beyond the speakers. The Bradley wires came out on top, with the Madrigal a close second. When music was played, the biggest difference I noticed was the tonal character like rolled off highes, or more bass. More information seemed to be present with Bradley wires, but the others sounded good too. (They should for that kind of money!) Bradleys wires where in my opinion more neutral, and therefore better suited for my tastes. I think this is because these wires where the best sheilded (with plated mylar and tin plated copper) and have the lowest capacitance from his use of teflon dialectric. The connectors on the Bradley wire are the heavy locking type that none but the most expensive ($600-$1500) cables use. These connectors embarressed all the other wires I tried because they were so flimsy and prone to breakage. This is important because I demo so much that I'm always taking something apart. I have heard from others who have demoed Bradley cables that they sound better than Kibers. Demoing is the final analysis for me, and thats how it should be for you too. Happy Demoing: DEMO, DEMO, DEMO...