Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!samsung!rex!ukma!seismo!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: tbvanbel@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Terry Van Belle) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Corruption in Christianity (was Re: How to get to Heaven) Message-ID: Date: 12 Feb 91 09:16:57 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 63 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article crf@ginger.princeton.edu (Charles Ferenbaugh) writes: >A thought along these lines: one of the fundamental assertions of >Christianity is: > >Proposition 1: All of humanity is fallen and rebellious against God. > >Or, to put it another way: > >Proposition 1a: Humans by nature tend to abuse anything God gives them >using it for their own purposes rather than God's. > >Proposition 2: The Christian religion is a part of the "anything" in 1a. > >So, not only can we say that "Christianity" has been abused by people >through much of its history; but in fact, according to what Christianity >asserts to be true, that's exactly what we should EXPECT to happen. Let me play devil's advocate a second: Barring personal experiences, all of our knowledge of God stems from Christianity and the Bible. 1) The reliability of Christianity as an effective tool for knowing God has been discounted by Proposition 2. 2) Similar arguments can be used for discounting the reliability of the Bible. 3) Even if one rejects argument 2), the selection of which books should go into the New Testament was determined by the Church Fathers, whom I would place under the heading of 'Christianity', and are thus discounted. 4) Even if one rejects argument 3), it is Christianity which tells us that the Bible is significant. Since the reliability of Christianity has been discounted, we do not know whether the Bible should be our guide. Conclusion: The only thing we have to go on is faith. It is by faith that the medieval Christians believed their Church leaders and went on the Crusades. It is by faith that the Spanish Inquisitors believed that what they were doing was right. It is by faith that 15th century Christians believed that in buying indulgences they were helping the souls of loved ones get to heaven. It is by faith that the puritans believed that sex is evil. It is by faith that many Moslems the world over believe that Saddam's war is a holy war. Cheers, Terry Van Belle tbvanbelle@cgl.uWaterloo.ca [I should note that Puritans seem to have gotten a bum rap. At least according to one study I've read, many of them believed in enjoyment of the world, as long as it was in moderation. They opposed total abstinence from alcohol as a cop-out. --clh]