Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!rex!ukma!seismo!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: conan@purina.berkeley.edu (David Cruz-Uribe) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: A question about penance Message-ID: Date: 12 Feb 91 09:17:16 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department. Lines: 52 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article ok@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes: [ Material on Penitential practices used by members of Opus Dei ] > >Finally, the questions: > -- would some of the Catholics on the net care to comment on such penance? > -- why doesn't the prohibition against gashing yourself apply to a priest > beating himself with bits of razor blades? > -- do other Orders still do this sort of thing? > -- did Vatican II have anything to say about it? Let me try to address these questions in reverse order: Vatican II did not--to the best of my knowledge--address directly the question of penitential practices. However, it did call upon religious orders to return to the charisms of their founders and reform themselves and their practices in light of the spirit of Vatican II. It can be argued that mortification is an addition to religious practice which no longer makes sense in this day and age, and so can be abandoned. And I am not aware of any other religious order which maintains these practices--though some of the cloistered orders may. (I do know that some of these still maintain rigorous fasting regimins (sp?).) I personally find such penitential practices to be overly extreme. On the other hand, since they were practiced by none other than St. Francis of Assisi, founder and patron of my order, I am loathe to criticize them. For whatever its worth, some people might find my Lenten fasts to be overly extreme. Such practices are defended by saying that they forcefully (:-)) remind us of the ephemeral nature of physical things, and in particular of our own mortality. Driven by physical pain from the comforts of this world, we turn more fully to God. Further, such practices induce humility by reminding us of how weak and frail we are before the majesty of God. On the flip side, such practices smack of Manicheanism (sp?): they treat the spirit as good, but physical creation as evil. In particular, they are hard to reconcile with St. Paul saying that the body is the "temple of the Spirit". It would be in this light that I would interpret the Old Testament injunction against self-mutilation. Overall, mortification might have a valid role in a person's spiritual life, if done "in moderation" and under the supervision of a spiritual advisor who can restrain misplaced zeal. From the material quoted, and from other things I have heard about Opus Dei, I suspect that they lack both. Along these lines--can anyone give me any references on Ous Dei, preferably objective ones? (Living in Berkeley, I get my fill of diatribes :-)). Yours in Christ, David Cruz-Uribe, SFO