Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!wang!harvee!esj From: esj@harvee.UUCP (Eric S Johansson) Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: Eric's funny for the day Message-ID: <6650120@harvee.UUCP> Date: 19 Feb 91 18:24:42 GMT References: <9102141832.AA19990@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> <4321651@harvee.UUCP> <23224@well.sf.ca.us> Organization: gators 'r us Lines: 59 X-Version: Rodney's UUCP modules 05/09/90 V1.15 In article <23224@well.sf.ca.us> jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) writes: > esj@harvee.UUCP (Eric S Johansson) writes: > > ... ... > > >Well... Using C instead of forth *is* the option picked by most > >managers of software projects. > > Yeah, it's a gas. To program our Vesta Technology SBC68K > 68000/68010-based single board computer you can: > > a) Grab an XT Clone with two floppies and MSDOS 2.1 and buy > our Vesta Forth-83A+ for $99.00, or > > b) Grab a 386 with a big harddrive and buy our C Compiler and > source-level debugger for $3495.00. In my 14+ years in the field, I have worked for 6 companies. 5 would choose this option and I can name you about a hundred other companies that would do the same. (sigh) > > In house we use our Forth-83A+ for projects because we run > coencentric rigns around C programmers in terms of productivity. > > I'm sure glad that most of our competitors use C, it guarantees > that we underbid them every time. For your next custom engineered > control project, give Vesta a call. I sure will . Although you probably would not underbid as far as you think you might be able to. I am managing a contract for Polaroid now and we are paying 40K$ for a scanner toolkit. Approx. 30K$ is for documentation, unit test and regression test suites. Only 10K$ of the bid is for coding and testing. AND! if they don't pass our reviews (design, code, test) they don't get paid! When I write Forth code, I am about 10 times more productive than when I code in C. Coding in C++ without a class library is the same level of productivity as coding in Forth. Unfortunatly, coding is 20% of the effort that goes into building a software product. The rest is specifications, design, testing and acceptance. > > When in UNIX, do as the C programmers do, but when in Realtime, > Forth! > Hell, I want to make it possible to use forth *anywhere* not just realtime! Using forth and C++, I have gotten real addicted to powerful tools but my boss pays me to write specs and make designs that fit those twisted nightmares that come out of marketing. But, on the upside, they let me experiment with formal notations and OOD. -- ... ^^^ eric johansson UUCP ...!uunet!wang!harvee!esj esj@harvee.uucp * * a juggling fool AT&T (617) 577-4068 (w) o HAM ka1eec \_/ CSNET johansson%hydra@polaroid.com or hydra!johansson@polaroid.com source of the public's fear of the unknown since 1956