Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu!mitroo From: mitroo@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Varun Mitroo) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: AMIGAstation... Message-ID: <1991Feb16.180604.10623@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> Date: 16 Feb 91 18:06:04 GMT References: <12013@helios.TAMU.EDU> <1991Feb12.053906.10441@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> <1991Feb16.062147.24843@NCoast.ORG> Sender: news@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 78 Nntp-Posting-Host: left.magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu >In article <1991Feb12.053906.10441@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> mitroo@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Varun Mitroo) writes: >>Now imagine a lab full of A3000UX. Every one of them has empty slots - maybe >>one is used for ethernet. All these slots are doing nothing, except driving >>the cost of the machine up. NeXT realized this with the cube, and very >>efficiently pared down both the hardware and software: no expansion slots but >>lots of internal memory and hard drive capability, no Lisp (removed from the >>included software), no Mathematica (except for higher ed.) - software licensing >>can be expensive! If you need expansion or need a server, buy a cube. > This is silly. The "slots" on the 3000 do not add to the price >basically at all. The "slots" are on a daughterboard, which is removeable, >and has little (if any) support circuitry. I suppose it might be possible to >run without ANY slots, but why? When the board the slots are on is basically >dirt cheap, and any hard drive will cost your at least 10 times as much, >if not more, why leave it out? In fact, if someone wanted a REALLY >expandable 3000, they could design up a new case, and replace the "dumb" >board with the slots with one with MORE slots (say to add 8 or 9 ISA >slots instead of the 2 you get on a normal 3000). You tell me - why is the 2000 so much more expesive than the 500? They have the same processor and custom chips, the same video and monitor. What's different? The SLOTS. Of course, unless you are saying that commodore is making a huge profit on the 2000s by doubling its price over a 500... >> >>It's wonderful that each and every one of the Amiga3000UX can run AmigaDos, >>and each could have many serial ports, and each could have a Video Toaster, >>but of what use are these for unix boxes? The important thing is that they >>are well-integrated, have nice clear displays, and are FAST. > Well that's good, because the 3000 DOES and IS. No argument from me. >> >>The 3000UX does make a good unix box, but there is no reason to drive up its >>cost with those unnecessary options: expansion slots, AmigaDos, etc. Maybe >>Commodore should realize this and come out with an AMIGAstation: 100 meg drive >>high res monitor, ethernet, no expansion. They could probably shave off over >>$1000 from the price and have a nice fast integrated unix box. > And AmigaDOS does not add anything to the cost. The 3000UX is >exactly the same hardware wise as the 3000, so you would have to do something >extra to REMOVE AmigaDOS compatibility, which would ADD to the cost. Unix on the amiga does not use the blitter at all. What I am implying is that commodore's unix takes out much of the originality of the Amiga. After all, the only thing that makes the amiga different from any other 680x0 box is its custom chips and its operating system. With unix, commodore has phased out both of these. New orders are not going to come from unix people who have "AmigaDos compatibility" as one of the checkmarks. Commodore is only going to sell the 3000UX to people who already have amigas and want unix - a small market. Seriously, WHAT is there on the 3000UX to intice new customers? Yes, it is a good unix box, but IT COSTS MUCH MORE THAN OTHER COMPUTERS. There is no excuse for commodore to be just releasing hardware when competitors already have computers out that are faster ('040), more memory (8 megs vs. 4), and are cheaper. If they want any market share, they will have to cut costs. Commodore must realize - are they going to sell amigas that run unix or sell a unix computer. If the latter, then AmigaDos and its custom chips are extra. Maybe if they could run AmigaDos as a task under unix, there would be more incentive to buy a 3000UX. > Now if they came out with a 500 with an '030 on it, the same RAM >expansion, and the video board built in, that might cost less, if you You are contradicting yourself. Why should commodore usea 500 for this? Because it is cheaper than the 2000. But why is it cheaper? Because it has NO SLOTS. Therefore, slots=money. Keep in mind this also includes the cost for a larger case, bus controller chip, bigger power supply, etc. >could get people to buy it. Those wonderfull SparcStations you talk >about cost as much as a 3000, which CAN be expanded. > Sun must have done something right to have such a huge installed base. Marketing hype can only go so far. SPARCstations are at least twice as fast as the 3000UX. Varun Mitroo mitroo@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu