Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: wlsuen@rose.uwaterloo.ca (Gordon Suen) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Is Jesus God!! Message-ID: Date: 18 Feb 91 04:16:06 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 92 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Dear speaker (or well..you typed), Anyway, I'd like to present an alternative understand about the scripture....hopefully, based on the common part of OUR TWO Bibles. I am not a Bible expert, nor a Greek. But if one read, one will find evidences about Trinity and even indicating that Jesus is God. Praise the Lord for He had died for us. BTW, excuse my poor English. > > The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father is Jehovah! > They also inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the Scriptures > is a personal name given to the Holy Spirit (Ghost). In Isiah 9:6-7, it says: - Almighty God, Eternal Father ...etc, these names, titles are also given to Jesus. Not only titles but all the power that God has is also belong to this baby. If one READS THE WHOLE CHAPTER 9, especially verse 2, this verse is again referred to Jesus in Matthew 4:15-16. > Matthew 26:39 "Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face > and prayed, `My Father, if it possible, let this cup pass from me; > nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.'" (If the Father and the Son > were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. > Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity > have been the Father's will.) > > John 8:17,18 "...I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears > witness to me." (So Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an > individual separate from the Father.) Explaining is not difficult. To accept one's explanation is rather hard my friend. Of course, Jesus is God and a "real man". "Real man" means he feels pains, he has physical needs, he will too sorrow. In the scripture you've quoted....Jesus knows his mission, he also realized the great suffering but he was willing to submit his body to what THEY had planned for salvation. A simple anology is that Jesus is God's arm to reach the world and do what was planned. Can we say the arm is not God.... we cannot. > > 1 Peter 1:3 "Blessed be the God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!" > (Repeatedly, even following Jesus' ascension to heaven, the Scriptures > refer to the Father as "the God" of Jesus Christ. At John 20:17, following > Jesus' resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as "my God." Later, > when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same > expression, but never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the > Son as "my God," nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the Holy > Spirit as "my God.") This verse also says Jesus is our Lord....which Jewishs claim that their only Lord is the one who brought them out from Egypt. Many...many... many place in the Bible, apostles pronouce Jesus is their Lord too. In fact, Father and Son is Jewish's concept is that father and son have the same social status. That was why the Jewishs wanted to kill Jesus when he admitted, he is the Son of God. God and Jesus' are equal --- this concept is clearly spelled out in Phil 2:6-8. The catch is that some CANNOT accept the fact that Jesus which equals to God will humble himself to be man and to die for us, sinners. This is what God's love is about. > John 1:1,2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and > the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God" (King James). However > in the New World Translation John 1:1,2 reads: "In the beginning the Word > was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the > beginning with God." I think we should all find a greek bible to read. From my understand and what a greek christian told me that the verse should be "the Word was God.." The New World Translation is translated in this century to fit in someone's belief. > > Which translation of John 1:1,2 agrees with the context? John 1:18 says: > "No one has ever seen God." continue...."but God's only son has revealed HIM".... You are not quoting the whole verse!!! If Jesus is only "a god" how can he reveal the perfect Jehovah! This verse means Jesus is a live representation of God -- God and a visible man in one. > so, Jesus as "a god" merely reflects his Father's divine > qualities (Hebrews 1:3). Again a small god cannot reflect the Father perfectly.... I think I will discuss more when I have my English Bible with me... any I have a class RIGHT NOW!!!! BYE Jimmy Lee