Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: mib@geech.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Imposing Christian morality on nonbelievers Message-ID: Date: 19 Feb 91 06:31:22 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA Lines: 62 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) writes: Before I begin, I will state that I believe it is possible for someone who has participated in homosexual activity to be forgiven and to become a Christian. I also believe that it is possible for that same person to backslide into his/her sinful behavior. Even so, that same person is still a Christian. Well, I'm glad that you don't deny my Christianity. At least, not yet. As I have posted from a variety of Bible verses, the Bible shows that homosexuality is a sin. If you participate in homosexual behavior, you are committing a sin. Christ has said that "...you cannot serve God and mammon." Therefore, you simply cannot continue to fill your lustful desires and serve God. You must choose between the two. You cannot be a practicing Christian and committ homosexual acts. The two are contradictory. Ah, well, you do know indicate that I'm not Christian. At least, not *really*. Hmm. Can you be a Christian and commit any sin at all? Further, how dare you tell me that I "fill my lustful desires"? Do you have any biographic information upon which to base that statement? You haven't quoted *any* scripture, at least not in this posting. If you did so previously, I must have missed it. It's up to OFM if he wants to tolerate that discussion again. However, let me state that I do *not* find the quotations you are likely to present as in any way prohibitive of all gay sexual acts. Finally, note that it is perfectly possible to be homosexual and not have sex at all. The Bible also teaches that sin separates you from God. In addition, it tells us that when a member of a church is living a sinful life and refuses to repent and after numerous attempts by Christians, then that person should be excommunicated from the church. Indeed. If my church chooses to exclude me, so be it. I recognize their right to do so. But I believe that such exclusion is not exclusion from the grace of God or from fellowship with Christ. I can find a group of Christians who are accepting. So, when you committ sins, you will not only be far away from God, but God has ordered that when the sins reach an extreme, you should be excommunicated. Also, while we are told to leave the judgement of the heathen to God, we are told to rebuke our brother/sister. You can rebuke me, but you must grant me the right of rebuttal and give me due charity. If you will not take my statements at face value, then there is no basis for discussion. How to you reply to my assertion that being gay is an inalterable fact of personality? Your statements offer no alternative but celibacy. Is that your true belief, or do you contest (with no experience upon which to do so) that sexuality cannot be changed? Therefore, it is the sinner who has cut himself off from God. Do not blame those who are following God's will in rebuking you. Ah, I don't blame you. I merely ask that you give me due credit. -mib