Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!violet!cpshelley
From: cpshelley@violet.uwaterloo.ca (cameron shelley)
Subject: Re: computer life?
Message-ID: <1991Feb22.154109.26616@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Sender: daemon@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Owner of Many System Processes)
Organization: University of Waterloo
References: <1991Feb14.135220.7790@vax1.tcd.ie> <1991Feb19.130832.9715@shiva.sci.com> <1991Feb19.163133.8664@news.larc.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 1991 15:41:09 GMT
Lines: 49

In article <1991Feb19.163133.8664@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey) writes:
[...]
>Here is a quick and dirty definition, to begin discussion:
>
>1. Life-forms reproduce
>   - while computers are used to construct other computers, they still require
>     human assistance.  Viruses also cannot reproduce without assistance of
>     other organisms.
>
>2. Life-forms metabolize
>   - that is, they concentrate energy
>

You could be even more abstract here and say "Life-forms are a massive local
reversal of entropy" and thus be able to talk about complexity as well as
'material' representation.  Number 1 seems to interact with 2 to produce
death in complicated organisms -- one cannot assemble energy endlessly and
expect to reproduce (create competition) with limited resources available.

>I think these are the two fundamental ones.  All of the other attributes of
>living systems I can think of (adaptation, high degree of organization, etc.)
>can be traced down to these two.

It is interesting that crystals have both of these properties.  They 'grow'
becoming a highly organized structure while compiling energy in the form
of molecular bonds, and reproduce by splintering.  Should we think of them
as life-forms?  I guess this is where "metabolize" comes in; on the one
hand, crystals anabolize minerals to build themselves but I don't believe
they have any intrinsic catabolic process which tends to break them down.
Is there a geologist in the house?!  Now, are viruses life-forms?

Anyway, on the original topic, computers are certainly highly organized,
but they do not have a metabolism in the above sense -- they do not have
any intrinsic processes that break them down (excluding material fatigue),
probably because they are not under any competetive pressure for resources
and they don't reproduce.  At present, these functions are done for the
computers by their manufacturers and users.  The situation may change
though.

So, I concur that metabolism and reproduction are necessary for life
as we understand it, but complexity deserves attention as well.

				Cam

--
      Cameron Shelley        | "Absurdity, n.  A statement of belief
cpshelley@violet.waterloo.edu|  manifestly inconsistent with one's own
    Davis Centre Rm 2136     |  opinion."
 Phone (519) 885-1211 x3390  |				Ambrose Bierce