Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!torsqnt!lethe!yunexus!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!willett!ForthNet From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group Message-ID: <2373.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us> Date: 19 Feb 91 12:38:32 GMT Organization: (n.) to be organized. But that's not important right now. Lines: 113 Date: 02-17-91 (12:25) Number: 1211 of 1211 (Echo) To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: 1181 From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO Subj: FEEDBACK TO THE FORTH INT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Re: Jack -> > If you had mad Ting the president in place of the officious Mr. > -> Reiling, it would have offered more chances for success. -> Dr. Ting is current Vice-President. John Hall is President Great. Is this a state secret or were you planning on announcing it eventually in 4D? I know, you probably buried the announcement like you buried the announcement of elections last summer! -> > ... not since they dropped the ball on the annual conventions. -> Are you suggesting that we continue to pour money into an activity -> which continually lost money? Talk about "failure-oriented -> management". Sheese The conventions lost money because they were mismanaged. Let me give a counter-example: The Embedded Systems Conference last fall in San Mateo, sponsored by ESP magazine, probably made more money in three days than FIG has made in its entire history. The target audience was essentially the same as FIG's (if FIG saw the obvious). You guys could die of thirst swimming in Lake Washington. -> > Advertising *must* bring in the *major* portion of the > -> magazine's revenue, that is the economics of the situation. -> Just how many magazines have you run Jack? Do you realize -> how few Forth vendors are still in business (let alone those who are -> making any kind of profit)? Vesta Technology makes a very nice profit, thank you! I have managed NO magazines, have written for MANY that make money. The management of none of them bore much resemblence to the aimless, advertiser-alienating bungling that characterizes 4D. Last time I checked, it cost about as much to advertise in 4D as in ESP magazine. 4D circulation: ~2000 ... ESP circulation: ~25,000 Your answer, Dennis, to this was, and I quote: "That's how much it takes to publish this magazine." Dennis, you should work for the government, because that's how they think. Real magazines raise their rates when the circulation goes UP, not DOWN. -> I'm still trying to figure out any positive suggestions you are -> offering Jack. Are you waiting until we place you onto the Board -> before you do anything about the situation? Do you expect that you -> can increase our respect for your opinions by continuing to bash our -> abilities. Give us some workable ideas. Show us what you would do -> differently. My suggestions are, once again, for the 1000th time: - Put magazine on firm financial footing. Sell ads like real magazines sell their advertising. - Promote FIG in a professional manner. No more bullshit about "Forth Day" and other kindergarten tricks. - Realize your focus. FIG is there primarily for the beginner and the hobbyist. Find something to sell these people. - Admit that FIG is virtually broke, write off some of that worthless "inventory" that you will never sell, hit up some big corporations for one-time donations to get FIG back in a position where it can function as an international organization. - DO SOMETHING for the Chapters. Every month. Like clockwork. Anything. Call them and hold their hands. Send them speakers. Borrow money to do it if you have to. Sell life charter member- ships if you have to. - FIG needs a full-time office (wo)manned by one or two professionals. The current "management" organisation should have been dispensed with four years ago. These suggestions are a sampling. They are of the nature of "campaign promises" and should not be taken too literally. WHAT FIG NEEDS IS SOMEONE ON THE JOB. Someone who can take expedient, rather than ideological action quickly and in response to opportunity. FIG is as dull and slow-moving as a 1830's chess game before the chess clock was invented. We need SOMEONE PLAYING SPEED CHESS HERE. FIG IS DYING AS AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION. -> I gave you my support once, and placed you in the -> position of Chapter Coordinator. I saw an initial flurry of -> activity, but soon you resorted to your more familuar mode of bashing -> the very organization that you were supposed to be working for. How -> are we supposed to take your intentions now? It goes both ways, buddy. I thought you guys were good-hearted bunglers, but I begin to suspect your asses are glued to the chairs. Well, let's see what John Hall and Dr. Ting can do. They couldn't do worse than has been done. If they fail, there won't be enough left of FIG to make it worth rescuing. =jax= NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth! <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp