Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!agate!ucbvax!alfalfa.com!nazgul From: nazgul@alfalfa.com (Kee Hinckley) Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.motif Subject: Re: File Selection Dialog -- no parent button? Message-ID: <910225165002.5827@alphalpha> Date: 25 Feb 91 21:50:02 GMT References: <9102251702.AA27327@osf.osf.org> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: inet Organization: The Internet Lines: 62 > >> Wouldn't it make much more sense for it to be a down arrow? That, people > >> would understand. > >> > > NO, a general human factors rules is "similar controls should behave > similarly". In Windows 3.0 and PM a down arrow is used to indicate > a Drop-Down List or Drop-Down Combination Box. Since the option > menu is NOT a Drop-Down List or Combination Box, a down pointing > arrow should not be used. To a Windows user the Option Menu would > look like a Drop-Down list, if a down arrow graphic was used. Funny, I thought that an OptionMenu *was* a drop-down list. "A drop-down list is similar to a drop-down combination box, but it does not have an entry field for typing text. Instead of an entry field, users see a single selection field with one choice displayed as the default value. As for drop-down combination boxes, users have the same visual cue that a list is hidden; they see a prompt box containing a downward-pointing arrow at the right side of the selection field." IBM SAA CUA Advanced Interface Design Guide, First Ed., Page 68. Sounds like an OptionMenu to me! The only significant difference is that OptionMenus try and be smart and come up on the item that you are most likely to want. If you really don't think that the two are the same, then throw out OptionMenu and give me DropDownList - because right now I've watched several users who had absolutely no idea that they were even active options (on a BW screen), let alone that it would pulldown a menu when they selected it. > Another obvious problem in using a down pointing arrow in the option > menu is that it would imply that the menu will be posted BELOW the > option menu button. In Motif, the Option Menu can often be posted > ABOVE the option menu cascade button. An optimization, nothing more. > The current graphic of a bar > is similar to the bar graphic used in NeXTStep option menu and > similar to the bar in the mwm window menu. I'm not sure it's really relevant what NeXT does, and as to the mwm window menu - novice users don't know what that does *either*. > Lastly, in the UEC SIG held on January 1990 a vote was taken on what > the graphic should be for the Option Menu. The results are: > > Right arrow : 1 - same as cascade menu graphic > Down arrow : 4 - same as IBM CUA "drop-down list" graphic > Bar : 8 - same as window menu graphic and provides visual > cue that menu will appear over graphic How does a little rectangular blob provide a visual cue of anything to someone who has never seen it. Arrows people understand, but blobs are not part of their normal everyday interactions. I assume that vote was made with the assertion that OptionMenus were not DropDownLists. I believe that the difference between the two is so small as to make it undesirable to have both kinds of objects, and that therefore the two objects should be treated as identical. Alfalfa Software, Inc. | Poste: The EMail for Unix nazgul@alfalfa.com | Send Anything... Anywhere 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | info@alfalfa.com I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.