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From: rrd@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ray Depew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.handhelds
Subject: Re: Thrown out HP's...
Message-ID: <7360085@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>
Date: 1 Mar 91 18:49:29 GMT
References: <99036CAFC00032A2@gacvx2.gac.edu>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 82

In comp.sys.handhelds, jsims@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (J. Robert Sims) writes:

> Ray Depew says that since the calculators that are being returned are being
> returned on the pretense that they are defective, they are worthless.  To the
> contrary, those defective calculators are not worthless.

I knew you were going to say that.  In fact, they still work fine, don't they?

> Granted, they are
> not worth what a brand new Rev. E is worth, but they still have some value.
> There are many thrift shops who only sell "defective" merchandise.  The 
> merchandise is heavily discounted, but still brings in money for the company
> (in almost all cases should at least cover material costs).  Whether HP 
> decides that they can make more money by destroying or donating the calcs
> is up to the marketing department;  don't flame the netters for a logical 
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> assumption.
  ^^^^^^^^^^

I'm sorry, but that's the part that has me riled.  Where is the logical 
assumption?  I don't want to read more into what "the netters" are thinking
than is really there, but what I saw was this:

a) someone posted that HP is throwing away all the returned 48's.

b) someone jokingly suggested that an expedition be staged at the Corvallis
   dump to recover them.

c) someone (Wlodek?) more seriously suggested that the returned calculators
   could be donated to schools and other deserving institutions.

d) several people in other postings have expressed shock and dismay that HP
   would just destroy or dispose of the returned 48's, and expressed interest
   in buying them at a discount.

Okay so far?  So the _obvious_ logical assumption, and presumably the one you
refer to, is that HP would still want to get some mileage out of these used,
defective 48's by selling them at a discount somewhere, or donating them to
schools.  HP's not in the business of selling "factory seconds" at a discount
(except to employees).  And despite the accusations that have been made on the
net, HP doesn't screw their customers by knowingly selling defective 
merchandise as defect-free.

> A car with a dent in it is still worth almost the same as a 
> car with no dent.  (I paid for a car without dents, and HP is now fixing
> the dent).  

And a used car with a dent isn't worth the dealer's time to fix.  BTW,
um... how many miles did you drive it before you got the dent fixed?  How 
long did you drive the car before deciding the dent was worth getting fixed?

> HP wasn't legally obligated to replace the calculators, but
> since they are, I'm going to get rid of my archive bug.  I can live with
> the bug (it has cost me hours of work, though), but if I don't have to,
> why should I?  

Like I said, if the bugs really have bitten you, and they seriously impact 
your work, then by all means get the machine replaced.  What I object to is
the people who haven't been bitten badly by the bugs, and never will, and yet
they send their calculators in anyway just to get the latest ROM Rev.  I don't
care if the vendor is HP or TI or Casio, anybody sitting on the outside can
see that the vendor is getting systematically *screwed* by these people.  Most
of the postings on this subject have been on how to convince HP that you
really deserve a new calculator.

It reminds me of all those "How to get out of a traffic ticket when you know
they got you dead to rights" articles you see in _Car_and_Driver_!  Sure, it
can be done.  And you can get away with it.  All you have to do is buy into the
"logical assumptions" outlined in the article.

Doesn't anybody have any integrity anymore?  If not, then what about common
sense?  Or have we all turned into a bunch of grabby people, anxious to "do
it to others before they do it to you?"

Like I said before, if HP has an unsold, unused stock of old Rev. 48's, it
may be worthwhile for them to donate them to an underfunded school somewhere.
But regarding warranty returns, remember this:  *you* told HP your calculator 
was defective, so HP threw it away for you.  Learn to live with it.

-- Ray
Disclaimer:  Somebody in Corvallis is reading this and saying "Is that Depew
posting again?  Oh, no!  Can't somebody shut him up?"