Xref: utzoo comp.sources.d:6620 alt.flame:29179 talk.politics.misc:65196 Path: utzoo!utgpu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!decwrl!ames!vsi1!zorch!xanthian From: xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) Newsgroups: comp.sources.d,alt.flame,talk.politics.misc Subject: Email posted at author's request re: AT&T patent claim article Re: [jkh@meepmeep.pcs.com: AT&T Claims patent on part of MIT's X11 server.] Summary: Racist jingoism at its worst Keywords: the achingly nuzzlable neck of TJ Flynn (tm xanthian lust, inc.) Message-ID: <1991Mar7.045031.13940@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> Date: 7 Mar 91 04:50:31 GMT References: <9102220501.AA14328@wheat-chex> <1991Feb24.073634.11556@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> Sender: ames!zorch!xanthian Reply-To: apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will Followup-To: alt.flame,talk.politics.misc Organization: SF-Bay Public-Access Unix Lines: 252 [LOOK AT the header and any results of using it; this is not a standard vanilla posting; almost everything up there has been edited to a purpose.] I received the following by email, with a request to post it. I find the anti-Japanese sentiments expressed here personally deeply offensive, and the world view warped beyond all contact with reality. I just despise censorship even more than the attitudes expressed here, and feel the author has the right to answer my public posting in a public forum. Please respond to the originator, fernwood!well!apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will not to me. With a certain amount of luck, the "Reply-To" line I set up pointed to the part of that from apple on down will be what your news software grabs for email, but check! Since the subject matter is really not suitable for comp.sources.d any more, I have included talk.politics.misc, and redirected followups there and to alt.flame (the likely appropriate group for most responses to this kind of material.) I didn't have the meanness of spirit to post it to soc.culture.japan. but the thought did cross my mind; I just don't happen to need a loud flamewar from which to slyly misdirect postings right now, so why stir one up? Except for shortening the email header and boxing it to protect the news software, this note is just as I received it. Kent, the man from xanth. /--------------------------------------------------------------------\ | | | From pyramid!fernwood!well!apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will | | Wed Mar 6 16:06:29 1991 | | Return-Path: | | From: fernwood!well!apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will | | Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 10:51:05 JST | | Return-Path: | | Message-Id: <9103060151.AA27719@rins.ryukoku.ac.jp> | | To: xanthian@well.sf.ca.us | | | \--------------------------------------------------------------------/ Since I cannot seem to post this as yet, I will try to mail it to you. The following is a reply to your comments. It is not intended to be a FLAME. It is intended to give a constructive out-look on your comments. I do not pretend that what I say is right, I may well be wrong. It is not intended to be bias in any way. I always try to keep an open mind on things. If you can add any constructive comments to this please reply. If you would like you may post this for me. "I have to investigate as to why I cannot post as of yet. In fact, Please, post it for me if you can. Will...... ---------- Cut Here ---------------------- For Posting ------------------------ > --text follows this line-- > **** Note newsgroups, followup line!!!! > > [AT&T legal slime is harassing X11 users over the patented "backing store" > method of saving obscured parts of overlapping windows, with an offer of > "licenses". Original legal letter is posted in gnu.g++.announce.] How do you know that they are slime? AT&T has a right to protect it's company property. That is what a patent is for,( to protect property ). If it was your patent, I am sure your would be suing the world, to get your part of the pie. > > Pretty disgusting; if you read Pike's original paper, it is an > incredibly generic description of an algorithm that any any second year > grad student would be itching to take apart and make into something > useful. It is link list based when it obviously needs to be hashed for > speed, for example, with any commercially interesting number of windows > in use, and it is a self evident extension of prior manual cut and paste > art and cel animation art. > I have'nt seen this patent but I would probably have to say that they did the hard part, ( inventing it ), with their companys money and resources. I am sure that when it was invented it was'nt so trivial. It's always trivial once you have the answers. > This is nevertheless an incredible threat to the whole workstation industry; > the AmigaOS system at which I type uses Pike's algorithm (unmodified, from > the relatively doggy speed of it), for example. I really do not think that the AT&T move is going to be half as much as a threat as the Japanese are when we start using thier patents, most of which were purchased (at cheap prices and in many cases given to Japan free) from both the United States and Europe. > > I read recently elsewhere on the net about a firm whose only business is > buying up idle patents from people who aren't using them, and suing "patent > violators" for the funds that are their profits. The Japanese (MITI) has been doing this for years. If this is an American of European company, and the article was in bad taste about the firm doing this, I would have to call it propaganda on MITI's part. The Japanese despise foreign competition on any level and still consider foreigner's to be a threat to thier country. The Japanese have never made any contributions to the World of any value, (unless you call WWII valuable), and use technology for their own selfish interests, and in many many cases even steal it from AT&T and other U.S. companies. In 1857, Masayoshi Hotta( the shoguns's adviser said, when competition between Japan and the United States began): "I am therefore convinced that our policy should be to stake everything on the present opportunity, TO CONCLUDE FRIENDLY ALLIANCES, to send ships to foreign countries everywhere and conduct trade, to copy the foreigners where they are at thier best and so repair our own shortcomings, to foster our national strength and complete our armaments, and so gradually subject the foreigners to our influence until in the end all the countries of the world know the blessings of perfect tranquillity and OUR hegemony is acknowleged throughout the globe". The Japanese live by these words to this day, and it clearly shows what their intentions are. They learned in WWII that they could not do it by force. They did learned however from the U.S. that you could however do it by Economics. Today NYSE said "that it wants to make it easier for foreign companys to enter into the exchange". I would say that many people would dis-miss this action, untill they learn that all foreign companies in Japan are virtually not allowed onto the Japan Stock Exchange. They let a few on to limit public resentment, but it's only for political gains, nothing more. It also show's who America's real bankers are, not American (they have been bought out), they are Japanese. That's right, when you send you child to college, it will be with Japanese money, not American and when GM wants to get a loan to stay in business to compete against Japan, it will also be Japanese money. So, what happens when the Japanese decide that your child does not need to go to college or GM no longer needs to build cars? > > Looks like AT&T has joined the lists of those who can't produce commercially > competitive products, and so have decided to recover operating expenses by > suing those who can but don't maintain big suites of lawyers. > Again, you have to see that AT&T are looking after thier own interests. Put yourself in thier place. Are you so kind, after being shitted on by the U.S. government to just give your companys assets away? If American company's are not allowed to protect thier assets, then why do we have patents? The Japanese have been and still are taking a free ride on X-Windows. Because we are giving it to them with no restrictions. They sure have'nt given anything of value to the U.S.. Sony, Sumitomo WorkStations Group, Toshiba, Sharp, and other Japanese companys will be making Billions of dollars, while U.S. companies with be making bread crumbs from X-Windows (because we cannot market in Japan, without complete transfer of technology to MITI). At which point the technology is then sent to the appropiate Japanese companies and reversed engineered. Still happens to this very day. The U.S. people are basically stupid and foolish. > Maybe this is a big enough item to finally gather enough amicus curae to > return the patent rules to the ones in the law: you can't license > breathing, and you can't patent algorithms and other laws of nature. > > I wonder if this falls far enough back in time that AT&T was still under > court strictures not to be in the computer business, and so could be > defended as owned by phone customers (essentially, the public) rather > than the phone company, like Unix should be? > > I'm not a great fan of Copyleft, but its merits are starting to grow on me. > Now if only shareware returned adequate living expenses. > I guess that if a patent was awarded on this issue then it did fall into the framework of patent laws. I don't see the patent office just giving unwarranted patents away, anyway that would be the patent office not AT&T's problem as far as issuing the patent. I am American and have now lived in Japan for more than 8 years, I respect the Japanese, they are good people. But I am basically at some disagreement as to Japanese policys and thier effects on my country. As well as to the U.S. policy, of having no policy. Untill the U.S. considers the Japanese as a threat to national security, I don't think any changes will ever come about. I am confident however that the recent gulf war will send a new and very powerfull message to washington. 1) The U.S. cannot maintain it's leading position in the world unless drastic measures are taken to preserve our Economy. 2) Japan presented a threat to the U.S. during the Gulf war by reminding us of our reliance of U.S. technology manufactured by the Japanese and their statement that during "THIS" crisis that they would not CUT US OFF from critical semiconductors needed for our weapons. " What will happen next time?" 3) The U.S. cannot deploy massive troops needed in the time of war, without first "BEGGING" other countries such as Japan for money. I am sure that Baker had to kiss kiafus' hand in return for money that was never given. And the U.S. is still begging Japan for the $9 Billion. Bush should feel disgraced by this action. 4) I hope that Congress finds that by just blamming each other for current Economic Problems and the Infrastructure Disintagrating in the U.S. does nothing to solve the problems. It is time to work together and re-build America. I think (not sure now) it goes somthing like this: " United we (the American People) stand, Devided we will most surely fall". The Japanese and other foriegn countries have devided us long enough. They have turned us against each other. It is now time that we band together and stand together to undo this situation. Next year when we vote for a Government Official let us take a good look at his real record, not the one that he tries to sell us. See if he was one of many U.S. elected officials taking payoffs from MITI and other Japanese organizations. 5) If the U.S. cannot fiqure these simple things out then the current matter with AT&T, won't matter. Because it's new name will be NT&T (Nipon Telephone and Telegraph). I am not an expert in these areas. My references for this were: Trading Places. "book" The Japanese Enigma. "book" and my experience among the Japanese people. I am not a Japan Basher, nor am I anti-japanese. I only love my country and want to help it any way I can. If anything I say here can contribute to that cause and make even a little difference then I have done some service. And last but not least, let us not forget that many of the negotiators for the U.S. government that were negotiating for American Industry to enter into Japan, have betrayed the U.S. and it's people and were on MITI's payroll during and after negotiations were completed, others sent letters to MITI asking for Jobs when the negotiations were complete. So you see, the Japanese never had to worry about U.S. policy, they made it. William Dee Rieken Researcher, Computer Visualization Faculty of Science and Technology Ryukoku University Seta, Otsu 520-21, Japan Tel: 0775-43-7418(direct) Fax: 0775-43-7749 will@rins.ryukoku.ac.jp