Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu From: greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio Subject: Re: MED things Message-ID: <45212@ut-emx.uucp> Date: 6 Mar 91 23:59:46 GMT References: <13748@life.ai.mit.edu> Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp Reply-To: greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 118 In article <13748@life.ai.mit.edu> ceej@.ai.mit.edu (Chris Hillery) writes: >I just read a couple of articles about people's trouble with MED. I don't want >folk to stop using this, as I think it's the best around, so I'll offer a few >suggestions: I'd love to keep using it, but it's getting on my nerves at the moment. >First off, this program is not really SoundTracker/NoiseTracker compatible, so >[Chris describes differences between the MED and NT formats.] >they are in beats/minute, 16 lines/beat, so far as I can tell). > >However, there are more serious problems when saving a Med song as a Noise- >[More descriptions, differences, and reasons why MED is better...] > >Anyway, I would assume that this >is the answer to the poster who couldn't get MED modules to play in a NT-mod >player. He also said it sounded as if some sample lengths were corrupt and >playing parts of other samples; I've heard this in many many NT-mods and I >honestly think it's either a fault of many players (which would not surprise >me) or possibly inherent for some bizarre reason in the NT-mod format. Either >way, I don't think MED is to blame. I am the post you mention here. I understand well the differences in features between MED mods, 16-sample ST mods, and the newer ST/NT mods. I'm not trying to save modules in MED's format and then load them into NT players. I'm saving them using the ST-mod option on the save menu. Before anyone asks, let me assure you that I am not doing anything in my music that is MED-specific. All of the codes are ST/NT standard. To quote the version 2.1x documentation: (discussing the ST-Module button on the save menu) "If you want to export the music to SoundTracker 2.x or NoiseTracker, you can use this gadget to save it as a module." It can't be any clearer than that. What we have here is a direct statement by Tiejo Kinnunen (the author of MED) that his program will save an ST/NT compatible module, which I can then load into NoiseTracker or a compatible program. Well, I can tell you that not one of Intuitracker, Module Master, NoiseTracker, ProTracker, or StarTrekker believes MED here. I doubt seriously that all of those programs share the same bug (they do not all contain the same code) and MED is the only program that doesn't. The answer is simply that MED's idea of an ST/NT compatible module is not correct. It's saving something having to do with the position and lengths of samples incorrectly. >The other poster who couldn't get IFF-sounds to load: were these sounds be >any chance saved out from NoiseTracker or SoundTracker? I know for certain >that NoiseTracker 1.2 and possibly many others save out bad IFF samples. >Audio Master cannot load these either (or rather, chokes for a while and then >says "Bad IFF: Loading as RAW", allowing you to chop off the little garbage >header and save it out as a good IFF). MED has never given me any problems >with IFF loading when the file it was asked to load was good. My major gripe here is that MED loads IFF samples and then ignores the sampling rate. I know this to be true because I had a sample that was _very_ out of tune with the others, so I loaded it up in a sample editor (AudioMaster II, in case you think it's buggy, too) and changed the sampling rate appropriately. I then reloaded the sample into MED and it was still out of tune. I loaded the old (unmodified) copy of the same sample into a different bank and compared them. They were exactly the same! This sample was nearly a full step off key (but not quite) and when I loaded both versions into MED I got the _same_ note. Loading them both into AudioMaster produced _vastly_ different notes (the old version was still nearly a full step off and the new one was correct). Simply playing the sample from the command line (using 'sound') produced different notes and displayed different sample rates. Why, then, does MED ignore this sampling rate? It should be modifying the given rate appropriately to play different notes, not using some set table of playback frequencies and ignoring any specified rate given in the IFF file. >This poster also mentioned that he couldn't get NT-mods to load correctly. >I don't know what it is about NT-mod format, but it seems to be seriously >prone to odd flaws that make no difference to one program but totally be- >wilder another. I have had modules that, when loaded into MED, played random >garbage with no discernable sound at all, but play just fine when loaded into >IntuiTracker or NoiseTracker. I don't understand it, but since many variations >of this have occured (some programs can load it, others screw it up) I really >can't blame MED. Unfortunately I don't know of a solution either. I can _certainly_ blame MED here. Look at the evidence. Everything else seems to work correctly with true ST/NT compatible mods. MED doesn't. Therefore, MED is buggy. Tiejo Kinnunen needs to sit down and figure out just what he's done wrong. >To sum: Please keep using MED! I have yet to see an editor with fewer flaws >or more power. To me consistent multitasking alone is enough to make it >worth using. Things can only get better with 3.0! I really like MED's editor, and, well, it's the only true multitasking ST/NT mod editor I've found. I have to give the author that. I'd really like to keep using MED, but I want my music to be ST/NT compatible -- I'll have none of this program-specific module format. Now, I'm pretty unhappy that I spent all the time that I have writing under MED only to discover that I can't output a working ST/NT mod. Since there's no printing feature (I believe NoiseTracker or one of the other clones has this... Hmmm...) I have to figure out some way to get a hardcopy of the music info & enter it into a _working_ program. I'd love to see MED 3.0 correct all of the problems in 2.13 and earlier versions. However, since the only source I have seen for 3.0 is to send the author money via Snail-Mail to Europe, you can count me out. I'll gladly pay for it when I have a working version on my disk, and not before. >Happy Tracking! Maybe someday... >Ceej >aka Chris Hillery >ceej@rpi.edu Greg -- Greg Harp |"How I wish, how I wish you were here. We're just two |lost souls swimming in a fishbowl, year after year, greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu|running over the same ground. What have we found? s609@cs.utexas.edu |The same old fears. Wish you were here." - Pink Floyd