Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!vsi1!daver!bungi.com!news From: jkh@meepmeep.pcs.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Newsgroups: comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: re: gcc 1.39, some bugs fixed and cleaner diffs. Message-ID: Date: 7 Mar 91 02:27:16 GMT Sender: news@daver.bungi.com Lines: 88 Approved: news@daver.bungi.com Do you need to remake all the /bin utilities when you recompile the kernel with GNU gcc 1.39? Last night, after some pain, I managed to get the GNU (that is - GAS/GLD) version of 1.39 to actually compile hello_world.c without looping forever in cc1. Yea! Says I. Then I recompile the kernel, using Jyrki's GAS versions of the relevant .s files. Kernel comes up, prints a bizarre date, then panics because it can't find init. I don't pretend to understand all aspects of the alignment debate as it pertains to Minix (I suppose I should learn), but I still don't see why it would cause this should happen. What would? At this point, I have 5 different versions of Minix 1.3, 1.5 and 1.3/1.5 on my disk, all patched subtly differently. To say that I am having a hard time keeping it straight after 3am is an understatement. Tonite, I will take a blowtorch to my disk (the figurative kind, of course) and start from scratch with the vanilla 1.3/1.5 hybrid release and Bruce's tools. Sigh. Unless we can get some greater sense of Minix unity here, I'm going to do the following in the post-nuke phase: 1. Get Bruce's tools up to 1.39, and the hybrid up to the last Phil Nelson patch level. 2. STOP. No GNU gcc, no estdio, no GDB, no nothing that isn't blessed by Bruce and Phil. I have no problem with doing the extra work, it's just that when I tried going my own way before, I would constantly find duplicates of my efforts the next morning in my mailbox! May I respectfully point out the following: In the beginning days of the pc532, all was fine and dandy with everyone happily spinning their own little independent development threads. Since most everything was stand-alone, there wasn't much of anything to standardise on anyway so it didn't much matter. I did a little bit to help by releasing the libraries, but it was just a stopgap measure and not of much permanant use. Now a good percentage (?) of us are running one OS, for better or worse. This environment is just complex enough that not everyone has the time or motivation to become a Minix Expert, nor should they, necessarily. Why? Well, there are enough independent little bits of Minix that need improving that we stand to gain the most by directing people's efforts in as many different directions as we can. Having 4 or 5 "total gurus" whacking on the same bits of code, without much (perceived) coordination, doesn't do the overall effort much good at all. It can also lead only to frustration in those who have chosen to "follow" rather than "lead" in the Minix parade. I, for one, would be happy enough to "follow" if given a clear enough path. So far, the patches from Bruce and Phil have seemed well-coordinated and I have quite a bit of faith in them. I would be happy enough at this point just following their lead and expending my efforts in other, more needed, areas. For example, the last two weeks I've wanted to spend my time working on improving fs performance, but haven't gotten even so much as a start on it due to being solidly tied up trying to untangle the job of porting gcc+estdio+latest kernel hacks + assorted gnu utilitys. This frustrates me and doesn't give the rest of you better fs performance. I'm not knocking Jyrki or Sverre's (Hi Jyrki!) efforts at all here, don't get me wrong, I just think (in my usual verbose and rambling fashion :-) that a better way of coordinating all this needs to be worked out. How about something like the following? 1. All system hacks (this includes the libraries + includes) go to Phil & Bruce. If they are going out of action for awhile, perhaps they should appoint someone to guest-coordinate for awhile in their stead. No system patches go to the list. Period. 2. Porting of GNU software and other interesting applications goes to Jyrki. He figures out some decent scheme for releasing diffs (which, BTW, have been top-notch so far, so YOU'RE IT JYRKI! :-). If anyone else ports something cute, they send the diffs to him. I think diffs could also be sent to the list, since ancillary utilities aren't so critical to decent system operation. 3. A minix mailing list is set up for those who want to discuss trends and ideas ("should we add the symlink code? Why not?") + tips for doing weird things like going to 62 character file names. 4. I stop whining, get my system back in stable condition again, and go back to working on the stuff I was supposed to be doing instead! Jordan