Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: art@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Arthur L Miller) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Gay Ordination in the Presbyterian Church Message-ID: Date: 7 Mar 91 08:52:20 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Northwestern University Lines: 65 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes: > >> Christ also expects us not to judge one another. > > While I agree with this general statement, I that an important caveat >is that we don't fall into a degenerated state, where we are afraid to >condemn *actions* which are sinful. > While we should not judge individuals, it is necessary to judge actions >and behaviors. To which the moderator writes in regards to the recommendation by a comittee of the Presbyterian Church to allow homosexuals to be ordained as pastors: >... I think we should do our fellow Christians the >courtesy of believing that they are actually considering things from a >Biblical point of view, rather than explaining away all disagreement >on the assumption that everyone else is giving into cultural >influences pointing in their direction, while we of course are >operating from pure Christian motivations. Maybe the PC(USA) had good intentions, but I find it hard to swallow considering this passage from I Corinthians: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders ... will inherit the kingdom of God." (Chapter 6, vv. 9-10, NIV) If the leadership of the Presbyterian Church feels that Paul's letters aren't adequate for spiritual insight perhaps they should publish their own Bible and leave out the parts they don't like. -- Arthur Miller | art@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Northwestern University | "Evolution: A few links & a missing chain." Class of 1991 | -- Dave Eastman [It's not a matter ofa wanting things left out, but believing that what makes sense in one context may not make sense in another. This does not mean ignoring Paul's advice, but rather watching how he applied the Gospel to issues of his time and attempting to do something similar for ours. This does not mean that I agree with the committee's report. I haven't read it, and the summary I saw contains some disturbing things. But as moderator I attempt to advise people on what lines of discussion are likely to be fruitful, and I can tell you that basing discussions with Presbyterians on the assumption that they simply throw things out when they find them inconvenient is not going to go anywhere, because that's not what they are doing. There are certainly reasonable objections that can be made to the way the PC(USA) (and other similar groups) handle Scripture. But if you're seriously trying to engage them in discussion -- as opposed to coming up with ways to justify ignoring them -- I think it would be useful to start with a bit more understanding of what they think they are doing. By the way, this is just a special case of a more general problem in this group. There seems to be a tendency to package people up in little boxes with labels like "idolatry", or "polytheist", and then not to bother trying to understand what they are really doing. That's not to say that you will agree with what they are doing. But I'd like to suggest that people start by trying to get a clear understanding of where others are coming from. --clh]