Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: lums@soggy-fibers.ai.mit.edu (Andrew Lumsdaine) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Apostles' Creed Message-ID: Date: 7 Mar 91 09:42:22 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: MIT Research Laboratory of Electronics Lines: 71 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Sorry if this has been brought up before, but can someone briefly summarize the origins of the Apostles' Creed? In particular, I would like to know where the "He descended into Hell" comes from. I have seen some Scripture references (I Peter 3:19, I Peter 4:6, Luke 1:78-79, Ephesians 4:8-10), but find their applicability to this question somewhat tenuous. I am not trying to prove anything one way or the other; I would just like to know how this particular doctrine evolved. Thanks in advance, Andrew Andrew Lumsdaine "We don't understand the software, and lums@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu sometimes we don't understand the hardware, MIT RLE but we can *see* the blinking lights!" [Creeds seem to go back about as far as we can trace the history of the church. E.g. I Cor 15:3ff appears to be quoting a very early creed. Creeds were used to summarize the faith, for instruction and other purposes. They were commonly associated with baptism, just as today generally some sort of confession of faith is required of candidates for baptism or their parents. There are brief creeds with some of the same basic articles as the Apostle's Creed as early as 150. In fact Leith claims that all of the items in the Apostle's Creed can be found in creedal formulations from 100. But the earliest creed I know of that has a real resemblence to it seems to be the Interrogatory Creed of Hippolytus, ca. 215. It is believed that the current text first appeared in the 6th or 7th Cent., but the differences between that final form and earlier ones from the 3rd through 5th Cent. are minor. It seems to come from the Roman tradition, and in fact is sometimes known as the Roman Symbol. Use of the term Apostle's goes back at least to the 404. (This information all comes from Leith's "Creeds of the Churches".) I think you have the relevant Biblical references for "descended into hell". Some of our readers know more about patristic thought than I. Some of them may be familiar with some of the early sermons and other explanations of the creed. These would be the best basis for judging what the phrase meant within the tradition that actually developed it. In current explanations, I've heard ideas such as the following: - that Christ really experienced the full consequences of our sins, including the isolation from God that is its consequence. Christ's cry from the cross (Mk 15:14) can be taken as a reference to Ps 22, which ends in triumph. However it is sometimes taken to imply that Christ actually experienced the results of our sins. The descent into Hell would be another way of expressing this. - that Christ is Lord of the entire creation, including Hell, and he visited it to establish his Lordship. - that Christ visited Hell to preach to those who had not had the opportunity to hear when they were alive. (This seems to be the meaning of I Pet.) - one theory of the atonement involves the idea that Christ freed us from the threat of Hell by going to Hell and then breaking its power. Note that expecting the Creed to be based on Scripture is based on a Protestant concept of Church history. If the creedal tradition really goes back to before Paul, then creeds were developing in parallel with the Bible. Of course the later development of the creedal tradition would have been influenced by the Bible. But given the Catholic concept of doctrinal development I'm not sure the people involved in forming it would have said that the Bible was their only source. --clh]