Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!es1 From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc Subject: Re: Amiga vs. Mac Message-ID: <1991Mar11.022205.18757@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Date: 11 Mar 91 02:22:05 GMT References: <1991Mar10.192823.30103@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> <1991Mar10.204119.22113@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: usenet@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (The Network News) Reply-To: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) Organization: Columbia University Lines: 90 Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu In article <1991Mar10.204119.22113@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >> Time to put some realism back into this discussion. No >>matter how much I like my Amiga, the Mac is not so far behind >>that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. The Mac >>Classic sells for about $750 on educational pricing. You can get > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > The A500 sells for $500 street price. Do you get Color with the Classic? >A keyboard? > As I said in a previous post, that only includes 512K of RAM. And the classic includes a keyboard. The prices are close enough that the Mac can't simply be dismissed. For those who can use the compatibility it can make the difference. >>it with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB HD for $1,200 or so on educational >>pricing. The A500 doesn't even compare to that price. If you get >>an A500 with A590, for the same price you get 1MB of RAM and a >>20MB HD. > > Why get an A590? There are plenty of other controllers out there, albeit >not asfast as the 590/2091, but the SLOWEST DMA controller you can >find for the Amiga will still beat the pants off a Mac Classic with >its 6502 CPU controller. The A590 is Commodore's product, so it has some official nature to it. It also has an educational price which still doesn't come close to a Classic 2/40. > > The A500 can't be compared with the classic, because the classic is >just too slow. The Amiga's custom chips, and color would have to be >removed. Color is nice, and it has its values, but a lot of people buy a Mac simply to get school-work done on. A LOT of people. Microsoft Word and MacDraw get most of the attention. As to speed, although the Amiga's interface is faster, for the hardcore work, i.e. CPU work, they have an 8MHz 68000. Essentially the speed there is the same. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't sell my Amiga, but with Apple's new pricing they have brought themselves much closer to the mainstream. > >> As to frame-buffers, first, DCTV is not a frame buffer. >>Second, FireCracker and the Toaster may be color frame-buffers, >>but they require a 2000, so it isn't fair to compare with the >>500/Classic. Finally, for that price range, i.e. $1,500, you can >>get 24-bit frame-buffers, and using 32-bit quickdraw which allows > ^^^^^ > Which costs $$$ and can't animate worth sh*t like DCTV, HAM-E and >ColorBurst can. I don't care how much people whine about HAM-E and >other such things not being 'full 24-bit palette mapped'. They are >an acceptable midway, for cheap animation. Most people can't afford >the amount of memory it would take to animate 24bit in real time. >The differences between DCTV and HAM-E and REAL 24-bit will be slight. >Hardly noticable when animating. Colorburst can display up to 48-bits >of information in its frame-buffer. Yep, 24 bits of palette map, plus >24 bits of overlay. And it only costs $400. With that paragraph I was just clearing up some fallacies made by the poster, not drawing conclusions, except that 32 bit quickdraw is something we don't have. >>the whole operating system including the finder and all >>applications to transparently work in the 24-bit mode. That is >>impossible to do today on the Amiga no matter how much you spend. >Not impossible, just harder. If the graphic card has a fast enough >data transfer rate, the OS can be patched in the vital areas to update the >display in real time. I'm not saying it's a solution, but it's a >short term fix to a problem that should have been solved in 1985. >Beating a dead horse isn't going to fix it either, and you and I both >know Commodore is working on it, we justhave to be patient. > It may be possible to patch the OS, but no one has done it yet. I can only assume that MAST, BBS and DC haven't done it because it would be too difficult, or they are still working on it. The Toaster and Firecracker can't. And yes, Commodore is working on it. And that satisfies me. But it is a valid point nonetheless. The poster made a very one-sided post which ignored many facts of reality, which is why my first sentence was to bring reality back to the discussion. -- Ethan Upon leaving office, Ronald Reagan began renting an office in the penthouse of the Fox Plaza, the Los Angeles high-rise used as the location for the terrorist movie "Die Hard".