Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!goanna!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!s900387 From: s900387@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Craig Macbride) Newsgroups: comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: DELETE/BACKSPACE key paradox on RS/6000 Message-ID: <1991Mar11.033714.2598@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Date: 11 Mar 91 03:37:14 GMT References: <1991Mar5.154645.10479@cs.utk.edu> <1815@bacchus.esa.oz.au> <1991Mar9.035843.16435@ico.isc.com> Organization: VUT(RMIT), Melbourne, Australia Lines: 59 rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: >> The real problem is that your vt100 has a "delete" key which sends "del", and >> no proper "backspace" key to send "bs"... >This is not in the least true, probably explained by the later statement: [...] >The VT100 has both backspace and delete; it's just that the delete is at >the end of a row while the backspace has the break key to its right. Thus >delete is slightly more convenient. Sorry I wasn't more precise. By a "proper" backspace key, I meant to imply one that is in the usual position and is thus relatively useable. For someone who uses a variety of keyboards and backspaces often, the standard vt100 bs key is not practical. The delete is not "slightly" more practical ... it is where a backspace usually is, and as such is _the_ key people will naturally press to backspace. >This is also true of relatively faithful VT100 clones. Maybe we just get different hardware over here, but I've never met a vt100 clone which could not be configured to send bs when you press the delete key. >> ...Change the vt100 to act like a normal terminal (having a >> convenient backspace!) is the easiest solution. >Well, the VT100 is not programmable to alter the codes generated by the >keys, so that's not an answer. But really, is the software problem of >setting the erase character so difficult that "change the hardware" is >an easier answer?!? I hope not! The easiest answer is to have clones which allow for the standard sending of bs by the key in the backspace position. This is what the majority of people here seem to do. When you have one type of terminal which acts differently to all others, all you end up doing is confusing the less Unix-aware users and irritating the rest. Also, I've come across various programs which are stupid enough to want to read backspaces no matter what the erase char is set to by stty. I'm not saying that choosing sensible hardware which follows the same standards as everyone else is necessarily the only approach, but the alternative is messy. It is not "difficult" to set the erase character, so long as you're someone who knows enough about Unix to do that, but you've still got to remember to do it. More importantly, there are people out there who use Unix boxes purely as computers to run packages on. These packages have no way of knowing that a vt100 has the delete key where the backspace key should be, and so you have users who know nothing about stty and who suddenly use a vt100 and have no idea why things go bananas when they try to backspace things. If their system's default for intr is delete, then they _really_ get confused. Hooray for user- unfriendly hardware! _--_|\ Craig Macbride / \ \_.--.*/ VUT (RMIT) is responsible for the equipment, not the opinions! v -- _____________________________________________________________________________ | Craig Macbride, s900387@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Reality is for people who | | Only the equipment belongs to Victoria Uni. | can't handle science fiction.| | of Technology (RMIT); The opinions are mine. |______________________________|