Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!olivea!oliveb!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!94!Fran.O'gorman From: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman) Newsgroups: misc.handicap Subject: Re: sign, mainstreaming and deaf communities Message-ID: <18029@bunker.UUCP> Date: 12 Mar 91 05:22:26 GMT Sender: news@bunker.UUCP Reply-To: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org Distribution: misc Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/94 - Monroe Electronic M, Monroe NY Lines: 113 Approved: wtm@bunker.UUCP Index Number: 13873 [This is from the Silent Talk Conference] Hi again Ann, First I want to thank you for sharing so much of your experience --as I read I think I understand better why you have your point of view. AS> I don't feel he would have expected so much AS> from us if he hadn't known we were capable of it. I am the oldest AS> and I was almost 4 years old before they realized I was deaf AS> because I was able to lip read and speak very well, even though AS> perhaps not distinctly but then on the other hand, a lot of small AS> children do not speak clearly at a young age. Before I entered AS> the first grade (I was 5 at this time and in kindergarten), I was AS> taken to a very good and well known specialist at Northwestern AS> University Medical Center in Chicago and was tested thoroughly and AS> told to be enrolled in public schools due to my lipreading skills AS> and the fact I could speak very well. You see the key here is that you already had mastered lipreading and speech on your own even before formal 'education' had begun--you WERE communicating. But you have to picture the child who is 5 yrs old and is NOT communicating...it happens too. My Mary was so frustrated she was screaming at times. The way I view it is that the child needs communication first, be it sign or lipreading/speech and if the sppech lip/reading is as forthcoming as your's was then you had it in a way in which more people would understand you--I would NEVER have interfered with that by changing you OVER to sign. But if by 5 you weren't communicating, sign would be a logical start--I'd think. AS> I will never agree with the theory that ASL should be taught first AS> as I know from experience it should not be the case - perhaps for AS> some but in most cases, no. When you think about it, communication starts at the preschool level at home, if the oral approach is going to work well as in your case it did, it would already have begun, but I think that you are the exception that proves the rule, I could be wrong I don't have statistics, but the sign idea as a start is with the idea that communication hasn't been taking place before this...my Mary was actaully starting to make up her own sign... AS> There are many who are like I am and I hope there continues to be AS> more in the near future - but regardless of what communication mode AS> we use, we will never break the barriers down until we work as a AS> whole. You will never see "hearie" or "deafie" in any of my AS> messages. I think the whole ideal of using those labels sucks as AS> we really shouldn't use labels. I'm in agreement here for sure--the communication is what is SO important and while I don't hate the labels I feel they do tend to create a 'us vs. them' climate. I like the idea of a deaf culture that doesn't exclude the others. AS> I don't mean to take all of this out on you - just wanted to clear AS> up a few things. I realize James and Jay will never be able to AS> discuss any of this on a rational basis, so it's best that I AS> refrain from making any more comments to them. I wouldn't say, 'not rational' just very emotional --which actually is kind of neat at times--I think James is probably a great teacher of sign for that reason because he believes so passionately in it... AS> Of course, we all AS> have the right to our viewpoints but there is no need to take it AS> out on others when they differ from your own. I guess I should remember I'm not the one they were yelling at :-) AS> I am very AS> opinionated but I'm also fair and I don't lose any sleep over AS> trivial things like ASL/Oralism but it does bother me a great deal AS> on some of our other rights which I think are far more important AS> at this time. You know all this arguing can get pretty crazy at times, and I have to smile a little though, because one of the quotes on this board was a parody on a familiar quote --this one "Revolution is the opiate of the intellectuals". It was my husband Tim that observed when an argument had ensued between the sysop and a user over preferred modems (and it was getting quite heated) that it was because they were both quite intelligent --I said why? He said get a couple of very smart people together with very strong views on an issue and...I think I got his drift .. :-) AS> Just because I stated I felt it best that I didn't continue this AS> thread doesn't mean I'm being a quitter - I definitely know better than that! :-) AS> It is hard to exchange messages via this medium and try AS> not to offend someone else. Gee, I hope YOU haven't been offended in this...I haven't, well actually at one point I did think that James was blaming me about the bad treatment deaf people have received, but it turned out it wasn't meant that way...anyway I think James and Jay are just a little more emotional at times than we cool-headed ladies Jay and James are ya listening...JUST KIDDING {now they're gonna get offended maybe}... --Fran PS We really COULD change the subject at this point I think everyone might just breathe a sigh of relief if we did :-) -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!94!Fran.O'gorman Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org