Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!usc!wuarchive!uunet!ora!ambar From: rutabaga!jls@igor.rational.com (Jim Showalter) Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: sexist space Message-ID: Date: 8 Mar 91 14:07:57 GMT References: <1991Mar4.150345.7223@midway.uchicago.edu> Sender: ambar@ora.com (Jean Marie Diaz) Organization: O'Reilly and Associates Inc., Cambridge MA Lines: 54 Approved: ambar@ora.com >I was in the all-female class, and it was shocking. For the first six >weeks to two months, the classroom sounded like a graveyard. No hands >were raised, no suggestions were offered, participation occurred only >when the teacher called on someone by name. >Then, around the end of >October, everyone woke up, realized there were no men around, and >began to participate. This was in a very self- consciously "PC" >school; women spoke freely in most classes, and anyone saying anything >blatantly sexist would have been laughed at, but women still did not >feel free to compete in a "male" subject like math. I'm very confused by this post. It sounds like what you are saying is that women are inherently less aggressive/assertive than men. After all, there were no men around to "oppress" the women, and the still acted shy and retiring. How can this be blamed on male aggression?--there weren't any "aggressors" in the room. >In February, the men's teacher left the school for medical reasons, >and the classes were recombined. Two weeks after the recombination, >all the women had shut up again. Why? What did the men in the combined class do to make this happen? Did they threaten to kick the shit out of the women if they spoke up? I somehow doubt it. So what DID happen? WHY did the women clam up? Could this have more to do with the women themselves than any external cause? >Involuntary, nonmalicious, habitual sexism is a much stronger, more >pervasive force than I had thought, and the only way to counteract it >is to first become able to see it. What, exactly, is "involuntary, nonmalicious, habitual sexism"? Is it the mere existence of men in the classroom? What precisely did the men do to keep the women down? Could it be that the women kept THEMSELVES down, and that the men actually are blameless? I have been following the news about Mills College and how triumphant the students there were when men were kept out. Hooray--another great day for equality!--an entire gender was prohibited admission, and nobody claimed it was discriminatory. Women will not achieve true equality until they can do so without crutches. My wife put herself through Stanford on an academic scholarship. She didn't need any help from AA, and she didn't need to hide out for four years away from the taint of male competition. THIS counts for something: it was a battle honestly won. -- ***** DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed herein are my own. Duh. Like you'd ever be able to find a company (or, for that matter, very many people) with opinions like mine. -- "When I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."