Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gt1104c@prism.gatech.edu (SILVERT,STANLEY DAVID JR) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Christianity and war Message-ID: Date: 8 Mar 91 05:48:28 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 85 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article RJB@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu (Rich Belcinski) writes: >In article , >gt1104c@prism.gatech.edu (SILVERT,STANLEY DAVID JR) says: >> >>I look at these passages in the OT as the result of cultural bias on >>the part of the editors. After all, if you are recording the history > > Most of the OT is not about "cultural vindication of the Isrealites." I did not claim that the OT is ABOUT vindication, I only offered an explanation of why God appears to be so ruthless and cruel in the OT. After all, compare Nahum 1:1-6 to I John 4:16. It is clear that the way men think about God changed drastically after hearing the teachings of Jesus. > >>that you kill in this instance. However, I believe that no God who >>LOVES EVERYONE would tell one group of people to kill another. Maybe > > This is what *you* believe. Don't people who love their children >discipline them from time to time? You are also looking at God's acts Yes, this is what I believe and I stand by that belief. A Christian parent who disciplines a child does so (hopefully) out of love. Do you really think that anyone was showing love for the Hittites, Cannanites, etc. when God supposedly told the children of Israel to destroy their enemies totally, make no treaties, and show them no mercy (Deut 6:2)? From what we know about Jesus we gather that he was completely peaceful and merciful. We should strive to be like Jesus. > >>it made sense that God would hire executioners back when people tended >>to think of God as just the great judge and jury in the sky, but in >>light of the teachings of Jesus this simple-minded view is very >>questionable. > > What's so "simple-minded" about justice? Jesus himself preached >that there would be an end-time, and God would judge the world. >Look at Matthew 11:20-24. Jesus warns of judgement. Go and read a >bit before accusing others of being "simple-minded." Since you seem >to be so fond of Matthew... (7:7) "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust >in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" > There is nothing simple-minded about justice. I was stating that is seems that the Isrealites had a limited view of who God is. While we don't have all of the answers, I think we are better informed on the subject of God's identity that those ancient people who lived many years before Christ. I am sorry that you misunderstood my meaning. My fault! >>We have had this debate about the meaning of this commandment before. >>I feel that we also need to take a close look at Matthew 5:21-26 where >>Jesus talks about this issue of killing and verses 43-48 where he > > No. Jesus talks about "murder," not "killing." A prominent professor from Southern Theological Seminary, Dr. Bill Hendricks, informed me at a Bible conference that the meaning of this passage is "Don't kill." Dr. Hendricks even goes so far as to claim the teaching has an impact on killing through pollution of the environment, apathy for those in need of medical care, etc. Whether you agree or not, there are serious scholars who take this passage to have implications on all forms of killing. If you doubt the scholarly credentials of Dr. Hendricks, he does hold degrees from Harvard and Cambridge. I'm not saying he is infallible or anything, but I do hold his opinions in great esteem. >you are *not* to love the atrocities because you love your enemy. If >you take your enemy's life here, it would not be murder. It is clear >that we are not to take pleasure in killing. God never commanded his >people to kill indiscriminately. > If one takes a literal interpretation of the OT, God does command his people to kill indiscriminately (IMHO). My worry is that we look at the Old Testament without considering the New Testament. Did the U.S. army check each of the approximately 100,000 Iraqis to see that each was committing atrocities before they killed them? Even if they were, what about turning the other cheek and not resisting an evil person? How are Christians supposed to explain to people that violence is not an acceptable means of solving problems when we give support to mass destruction of human life? -- Stan Silvert Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!gt1104c ARPA: gt1104c@prism.gatech.edu