Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: rjb@akgua.att.com (Robert J Brown) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Of Christians and Jews (was Re: Questions about the Messiah) Message-ID: Date: 9 Mar 91 06:42:59 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 76 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET (Yaakov Kayman) writes: > > This said, I should like to express my curiosity about the evident > preoccupation by some/many/most Christians, in this newsgroup at least, > with the Jews, and what we do and do not believe. As Jews spend virtually > no time whatsoever mulling over what Christians do or do not believe, or > do or do not practice except when it causes adverse results to Jews, > I'd like to ask "Haven't you got things more germane to your own faith > to discuss, rather than spending so much time discussing a people that > has made it eminently clear throughout two thousand years that it is > just not interested in Christianity and wants nothing of Christians other > than to be left alone? Why not just give it a rest?" > > Yaakov K. > -------- I don't think the "rest" you seek will ever come because some/many/ most Christians see themselves inextricably linked to Judaism ( at least our image of it not necessarily accepted by you and other present-day Jews). We are not going to go away, we are not going to stop talking about it, and we are probably not going to ever let you be done with us even over in s.c.j. It ain't meaness on our part, it just bees that way... Bobby akgua!rjb [I hope Bobby doesn't mean this to be as unreasonable as it sounds. For better of worse, Christianity was created by Jews, and the NT was written by Jews. This means that Jewish background is essential to understanding the NT. The NT in many places defines the Christian position in contrast with Judaism. To the extent that Christianity is based on the NT, this involves us in discussion of Judaism. (Obviously, the same is true of the OT as well.) The somewhat odd result is that many Christians (including me) seem to know more about 1st Cent. Judaism than the modern kind. There are differences, and in at least some cases these differences contribute to the arguments with Yaakov. He says "no Jew could possibly believe..." when we know very well that Jews did. I have talked with Yaakov several times, and at this point I really don't know what we can do to respond to his concerns. We certainly can't stop being concerned about the Jewish background for the NT. All scholars -- Christian and Jewish -- agree that an understanding of 1st Cent. Judaism is critical to understanding what the NT authors were about. In the most recent case Yaakov referred to, there were quite practical reasons for considering Jewish reactions. One was the question of what sort of cooperation is appropriate between Christians and Jews. I don't know about Yaakov's situation, but in Bound Brook, NJ -- as in other communities I know -- there is an informal organization that includes all the local churches. The local synagogue is also a participant. They are involved in the community thanksgiving service (which is held in each of the churches and synagogue in rotation). Obviously they do not participate in the community Easter service. There are issues in which cooperation does make sense, e.g. in helping the schools to understand the need to make allowances for students to participate in religious activities. I think it is healthy that when the police went into the synagogue to arrest someone, they were joined by all the churches in a condemnation of this monumentally insensitive choice of time and place for making an arrest. Nevertheless, while there are things to be said for cooperation among Christians and Jews, many Christians and Jews have questions about how far it is proper to take. This group is an appropriate place to discuss such questions. I have no idea why the members of soc.culture.jewish don't consider this issue worthy of discussion. Another of the issues brought up was how there could be a group such as "Jews for Jesus". I know this is also a concern of Yaakov's, and have some reason to think that there has been mention of this issue in s.c.j. In short, while I understand that Jews get tired of Christians coming up to them and asking why they don't believe in Jesus, there are good reasons why Christians do need to talk about both 1st Cent. Judaism, as well as our relations with 20th Cent. Judaism. --clh]