Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!ksand
From: ksand@Apple.COM (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX 2.0.1 questions
Message-ID: <12569@goofy.Apple.COM>
Date: 17 Mar 91 22:46:15 GMT
References: <1991Mar10.182907.9845@panix.uucp> <50137@apple.Apple.COM> <1991Mar17.075747.1576@panix.uucp>
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA
Lines: 73

In article <1991Mar17.075747.1576@panix.uucp> alexis@panix.uucp (Alexis Rosen) writes:
>In article <50137@apple.Apple.COM> ksand@Apple.COM (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>> alexis@panix.uucp (Alexis Rosen) writes:
>>The reason for filtering is simple - the UNIX kernel should not die
>>suddenly [while MacOS allows this, I hope this will be fixed soon
>>under MacOS as well].

>You're implying that LaCie can write formatters better than any Apple
>programmers. This is certainly historically true, but there's no reason
>it has to stay this way.

LaCie knows how their HD SCSI setup works with A/UX -i.e. how to go
around the problems.

>>Anyway, if a customer reads that HD Setup can partition *any* 
>>TPV hard disk, and tries with HD Setup, which can't possibly know
>>all the possible firmware programming setups and firmware control
>>codes for every TPV hard disk drive, then....

>This is a straw man. You don't have to _guarantee_ anything. But you _could_
>list the drives it did work with- if you tested with drives from Seagate,
>Quantum, Maxtor, Conners, and Miniscribe, you'd make 95%+ of your potential
>users happy. And as you probably know, the above-named vendors' drives are
>quite compatible with A/UX. It wouldn't take much (if any) work to teach HD
>Setup about them.

Oh well, it's really fun to work for a company and get all the flaming
on you, especially when you are not even working inside A/UX engineering.
Anyway, I will try to clear this thing out, once and for all.

I'm sure that concerning TPV hard disk products there will happen *a lot*
soon. I can't comment abount things that may or may not happen, or
be marketed (usual Apple disclaimer), but the issue with TPV drives
is very hot inside Apple.

I just wanted to point out the problems with TPV drives that don't 
follow all the guidelines for nice and clean HD drives that works 
with both MacOS and A/UX. If we, Apple of all the companies, are 
able to get them working, then TPVs should also be able. But we
don't control them. If we promise that HD Setup works with all the
TPV drives, and it does not, then we are lying, and responsible for
our statements.

>It is not their responsibility to establish a SCSI 1.1 standard with special
>Apple commands. It is *your* responsibility, as a vendor trying to sell a
>product into a crowded marketplace, to make your product as convenient as
>is possible.

It is in a way our responsibility to provide guidelines how to write
nice HD drives. But we are not Gestapo.

>>Anyway, this area is very important for the future, and hopefully
>>by providing and assisting TPV hard disk vendors with information
>>we could avoid the problem with non-working hard disks and working
>>partition programs.

I still think that with cooperation with TPV we will be able to 
some day have a HD market where every Macintosh hard disk drive
works with both MacOS and A/UX. The situation back in 1987/88 was
really bad concerning A/UX and TPV disk drives. We've come a long 
way. And many good TPV hard disk drives work perfectly with A/UX
today. And if HD Setup does not do the work, then Silverlining and 
CMS are valid candidates.

Back in 1988 dp was the only way to fix non-Apple hard disk drives.
Those were the times :-).

Regards,
Kent Sandvik

-- 
Disclaimer: Private activity on the Net, in no way connected to any company.
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