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From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: IRC and Security
Keywords: IRC SECURITY
Message-ID: <1991Mar14.212436.10526@athena.mit.edu>
Date: 14 Mar 91 21:24:36 GMT
References: <7763@uceng.UC.EDU>
Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 81

In article <7763@uceng.UC.EDU>, pmartin@uceng.UC.EDU (Paul Martin) writes:
|> 1) IRC is a meeting place for hackers and pirates.

  You just don't seem to be understanding what people are telling you.

  Using this logic, I could go on a crusade to ban pinball arcades, retail
software stores, retail computer stores (got to get rid of those radio shack
computer outlets -- *hackers* and *pirates* meet there!), BBSs, the Usenet,
and the "pizza joints" in many towns.

  Sure, hackers and pirates talk on IRC.  But they talk in a lot of other
places as well.  Blaming IRC because there are hackers and pirates on it is
utterly absurd.

  But, then again, this seems to be a part of the growing trend in this
country to blame inanimate things for problems rather than blaming people.  A
kid shoots himself because a parent leaves a loaded gun in an unlocked drawer?
Blame the gun, not the parent!  Hackers and pirates use IRC to talk about
doing illegal things?  Blame IRC, not the hackers and pirates!

|> 2) People DO give out their passwords to people they meet on IRC.

  Um, so what?  What does IRC have to do with this?  It is our policy that
people should not give out their passwords (and I assume it is yours too), but
our policy doesn't say, "People *especially* shouldn't give out their
passwords on IRC!"  Once again, you're blaming the medium, not the people who
are committing wrong-doings.

  Now, before you say, "But shutting down IRC will make it more difficult for
pirates to pirate, or for people to give out their passwords!" let me remind
you that many people believe that IRC does many good things.  You appear to be
willing to ignore all of those good things because of the bad things you see
about IRC.  Most other people in this discussion are not.  Perhaps you should
listen to what they're saying for a minute?  After doing that, if you still
disagree, then fine, shut down IRC at your site.  But stop asking other people
to do it, because we won't, because we don't see things the same way you do.

|> 3) IRC uses a great deal of bandwitdh.

  See my previous paragraph.  There's nothing wrong with letting a useful
service use bandwidth.

|> 4) 99.9% of the information presented on IRC is used for entertainment.

  And 99.9% of statistics are made up.

|> 5) Much of the network that IRC runs on is paid for by taxpayers.

  And it provides services that are far more "educational" than some other
uses of the net.  Using this argument, I suspect you could shut down the
majority of network traffic today, depending on how strictly you're going to
judge things (and of how much you want to stifle the growth of the "electronic
community" I mentioned in a previous message).

|> 6) IRC does not compare with Usenet News, Talk or E-Mail.
|>    Much of news is dedicated to the spread of knowledge (IE. this group).
|>    Talk and E-Mail normally used by individuals who know each other.
|>    Also these mediums are generally used for communication.

  This is absurd.  People have given you numerous examples of things for which
IRC has been used that can most assuredly be considered "the spread of
knowledge".  Its use during the war and its using during the earthquake are
just two examples.

|> I am sure that people will continue to hack and pirate long after IRC is
|> gone from the earth, however it appears to me from my expeience in using
|> IRC, that IRC makes the problem worse.

  Computer networks in general make the problem worse.  That does not mean
that we should disband the Internet in order to make it harder for hackers and
pirates to hack and pirate.  That's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

|> I do not have a personal vendeta against IRC.

  Um, my impression is that, in fact, you do.

-- 
Jonathan Kamens			              USnail:
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