Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!erb1!osnome!hunting From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) Newsgroups: rec.hunting Subject: Re: Gun Question Message-ID: <353@erb1.engr.wisc.edu> Date: 15 Mar 91 12:22:25 GMT Sender: news@erb1.engr.wisc.edu Lines: 87 Approved: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) As Robert Ruark said, "Use enough gun!" John Donovan enquired about possible choices of firearm for deer and small-game hunting (not birds). One of the options that he enquired about is the possibility of using the 0.223 or 0.243 for double duty. I would like to address this part of his question first and then make my recommendation. I'm afraid that I'm very opinionated about this subject. As far as I'm concerned, the 0.223 is *not* now, never was, and never will be a deer cartridge. It is quite true that a deer *can* be killed with the cartridge under the right conditions. A deer can be killed with a .22 rimfire or, for that matter, a knife tied to a stick under the *right* *conditions*. That doesn't mean that we should do it. The 0.243 class of cartridges is, in my opinion, the *minimum* suitable for deer-size game, indeed *it* is marginal for large deer and inadequate for the really large members of the deer family such as elk. While John's query is about how to hunt deer and small game on a limited budget, there is a subset of hunters who seem to believe that it is more "sporting" to use undersized cartridges for the quarry at hand. I believe that this is *false* sportsmanship. It may be more challenging for the hunter, but it is the game that suffers when the hunter fails to pull it off. I hope that this will not be taken as a flame against John. It is not so intended. I guess that more detail is needed to make any valid recommendation as to what *is* appropriate. (I've already made *my* recommendation as to what is *not.*) As to the suitability of either of the mentioned cartridges for *small* game, I suppose that it may be possible to hand load light loads for the purpose but I don't know for sure. In any event, to do that you will need to buy reloading equipment and I believe that, to get started, you will be better served by using that money to buy a better gun. Reloading can come later if you like. Hitting a running cottontail or other rabbit with a rifle of any kind is challenging, perhaps to the point of being frustrating. If small game includes rabbit, perhaps a shotgun is a more appropriate place to start. Because the real query is "What can I buy with limited funds to allow me to hunt both deer and small game?," my suggestion is the shotgun. At reasonably close range, a shotgun with slugs is suitable for deer and with shot it is a fine small-game gun. And, while you say "not birds" now, that option is still open. I believe there may be grouse, pheasant, and, perhaps quail, in your neck of the woods. Try it you may like it. Later, as funds become available, you can expand your armory to include center-fire rifles for big game, perhaps a .22 for squirrels and, maybe, rabbits (using the the moving target techniques that you should have developed with your shotgun by then :). While my preference in shotguns is doubles, all things considered, my recommendation for this purpose is a pump gun. If funds permit, perhaps the Remington 870 (or, they also once made a lower cost version--non-walnut stock, less well finished, but essentially the same action--sorry I don't recall the model number). For your purpose, I recommend interchangeable barrels (not necessarily screw-in chokes, although they are something to consider). With interchangeable barrels, later you can buy a slug barrel with sights for deer more cheaply than you can buy another gun. For now, a regular shotgun barrel either with screw-in chokes or with fairly open choke (does anyone know the tightest choke recommended for slugs?). A word of caution: If you do go for the Remington line, it has changed rather a lot in recent years. Make sure that replacement barrels are still available for the gun you choose, especially if you buy a second-hand gun. Well! This is far too long--diarrhea of the keyboard. I hope there aren't too many typos. Best, Charlie Sorsby "I'm the NRA!" crs@lanl.gov