Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: lums@soggy-fibers.ai.mit.edu (Andrew Lumsdaine) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Is there a God? Message-ID: Date: 14 Mar 91 08:57:30 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: MIT Research Laboratory of Electronics Lines: 57 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Andrew Lumsdaine says: [ Although God's existence may be undecidable, there is good reason to include it in one's belief system because it seems to correspond more closely to reality. The reasons cited are: changed lives, answered prayer, and the evidence of absolute morality. ] In reply, Jeff Lindborg says: [ Regarding answered prayer: ] >Of course for every answered prayer there is an unanswered prayer. I >know... I once used to pray to the same god you do. I'd be more willing >to bet that you work for what you pray for and mere chance stipulates >its fulfillment. I'm sure followers of the varrious gods of the Hindu >belief would be as addament in their belief that prayer to their gods >is effective in bringing about desired effects for them... > >If I pray for rain (here in Seattle) and get it... is it the act of >God, or just the weather? My first reaction here was to start listing off some of the remarkable answers to prayer that I *have* had. But let's face it, there is no way that I can sit here at my terminal and share with anyone what my experience with God has been. I'm not a capable enough writer, for one thing, plus there are inherent limitations in the medium itself. So, a list of the events in my life that I am convinced are answers to prayer would just seem like a nice set of anectdotes -- inspirational to some, maybe -- to the agnostic, well, they would certainly not be convincing evidence that prayers are answered. I realize this. So, I'm going to spare everyone the heartwarming stories (or nauseating self-delusion, depending on where you're coming from :-) ) But, in defense of my belief in answered prayer, let me say a few things. Your response seems to imply that designating a certain event as an answered prayer is mere superstition. But, don't you think that it is up to the indiviual actually involved to make that decision? Any prayer and (supposed) response are going to exist within the context of the rest of one's life. I know my life, I know the context in which I made requests of God, and I know the context in which these requests were answered. When I consider the prayer-response events, I am overwhelmingly convinced that my prayers were heard and that they were answered. But, I could never convey to a total stranger what the context of my life surrounding the prayer-response events was. Perhaps if we spent enough time actually developing a close personal relationship, you would understand -- not necessarily that the events were answers to prayer, but maybe you would understand that my reasons for believing so are not based in superstition. And maybe I could understand the reasons that you feel the way you do. I have to agree with Michael Bushnell about the severe limitations of trying to communicate over the newsgroup -- some (important) things just can't be shared this way. Regards, Andrew Andrew Lumsdaine "We don't understand the software, and lums@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu sometimes we don't understand the hardware, MIT RLE but we can *see* the blinking lights!"