Path: utzoo!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: charles@rpi.edu (Charles K. Hurst) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: no title given Message-ID: Date: 18 Mar 91 16:24:08 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Lines: 83 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article awmurray@eos.ncsu.edu (ALAN WAYNE MURRAY) writes: >In article , >ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) writes: >> [In a discussion of the plausibility of early accounts in Gen, >> Alan Murray mentioned the fact that Cain would have had to >> marry his sister. --clh] >> [text deleted] >> >> The reason that Cain could have married his sister is that at that time, >> God had not yet given people the law which forbade them to marry members >> of their immediate family. This law was not given until some time after >> Abraham (if you will recall, Sarah was Abraham's half sister). Actually, the Bible does not say what laws were in affect before the law was given to the Jewish nation through Moses. Also, Sarah was not Abraham's half sister! Read the passages closely! Abram was a chicken (or smart, take your pick), Sarah was extremely beautiful, and everytime they entered a foreign land the went into this act were they pretended they were brother and sister so Abram's head would stay on his shoulders! :) Creative, but it ended up getting him in a lot of trouble, as well as a Pharoah and a king (both of whom were reprimanded by God, and one of which talked back to God, telling Him that he, the king, was innocent). > > I find this very strange indeed. Why is it OK for Cain to commit >incest or adultery? You say it is not yet a law. Why then was Cain >punished for murder? Murder was not 'outlawed' at the time either...yet >Cain was punished for it (by God Himself). Are not murder and adultery >'forbidden' in the same place (i.e. The Ten Commandments)? What you >describe can be called by nothing short of total, complete anarchy. >What of blasphemy? Of idol worship? There were NO laws at the time, by >your own argument. Yet God holds people responsible for these future >laws. How do you explain this? > > Why does God hold Cain to one law while allowing him to break another? >Is it because it supports your argument and makes the Bible more believable? Once again we see an argument from the void, i.e. what the Bible does not talk about. First things first, the law given to the Jews applied to the Jews, and the Bible does not say what law God had given to humankind before that. Secondly, I might point out that Christians are no longer under the law (see most of the writings of Paul :). Obviously, the law is not some universal guideline that all people must hold to or be damned in hell forever. Ooops, I should point out that this is the Christian view I hold, and there are many people out there who might disagree with me, including Mr. Yaakov :). Those who would disagree with me are primarily Jewish, though sadly there are a few Christians who feel we are still bound to the law. I do not want to start a discussion on this, it is not my main point. As for whether or not Cain committed some sort of sin by marrying his sister/ close relative, I have a silly little question: God made the situation, right? He told Adam and Eve to have kids, lots of 'em, and he told those kids to have lots of kids also, multiply and fill the earth, etc. Now, if God felt it was wrong for Cain to marry his own sister/close relative, wouldn't He have provided more than Adam and Eve to have kids, or made a few more people so Cain could marry someone else? Clearly, either Cain married a sister/close relative and it was ok with God or God had provided someone who was not a sister/close relative. Either way it is a moot point, since the Bible does not specify exactly who Cain married. In fact, if you look at the passage, one might feel it even implies there were already a large number of people, since Cain began to build a city! What laws or guidelines God laid down before he gave the law to Moses and the Israelites is not specifically mentioned, as far as I know. We do know God gave instructions and guidance to other people besides his chosen people, such as the three wise men from the New Testament and the king of Salem, Melchizedek, who was a priest of God Most High (Genesis 14:18). Since the act of murder was apparently wrong, and God punished Cain for it, then it can be directly inferred that God had given some sort of guideline to people to tell them what was right or wrong. Again, the Bible does not say. We could note that God has given everyone a conscience, which is suppose to tell us what is right or wrong, but again, the Bible does not address what laws God had given to these people. Note also that Cain knew that what he had done was wrong. He does not try to deny it, nor does he argue that what he did was ok. Anyway, that's my two cents. I would be interested to hear what people think. Agape, Charles K. Hurst charles@rpi.edu