Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pcserver2!kdenning From: kdenning@pcserver2.naitc.com (Karl Denninger) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.nfs Subject: Re: Is pc-nfs useful to anyone? Summary: C'mon; use RARP! Keywords: pc-nfs, unix, sun Message-ID: <1991Mar20.220821.20026@pcserver2.naitc.com> Date: 20 Mar 91 22:08:21 GMT References: <123@jetson.UUCP> <1991Mar14.051003.6212@amd.com> Organization: AC Nielsen, Bannockburn IL USA Lines: 90 In article <1991Mar14.051003.6212@amd.com> phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >In article <123@jetson.UUCP> danq@jetson.UUCP (Daniel Quinlan) writes: >|c) Are there any unobvious concerns I should have about adding >|100 pc's to an ethernet network with pcnfs? (I was thinking of putting >|them on a separate subnet to isolate them a bit). > >If you give 100 users a PC-NFS package and one page of instructions, >almost certainly at least one of them will give his PC the same >name as the server and crash the server. If you do all the installs >yourself this is much less likely to happen. (what a bother) > >Stupid users. Bad users. Wish they'd leave my nice Sun alone instead >of causing trouble. They seem to want to get work done instead of >just admiring how wonderful a Sun is. Oh, but there IS a way around this. It's called RARP. I'm sure you have heard of it. We use that here with B&W's product, and haven't had a host name or id conflict yet. Yeah, it means you have to assign the person an IP address or he can't get in at all. It means your ops people have to gen an install disk which does all those things. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THAT FOR NOVELL TOO! They just call it the "IPX SHELL BUILD". No real difference. B&W's NFS shows up as a "Pc Network" under Windows. It doesn't show drives which aren't mapped. The printer support is only so-so; you can't map new printers, but you can release those you have mapped -- and you do have to use the ".OS2" devices. A real "login" program took me an hour to write for the PC, which handles ALL the specifics (ie: mapping the user's home directory, some shared directories, taking care of mapping default printers, etc). It's nice and automatic, figures out who you are and handles the bloody details (like where your real home directory is, etc). Now, try the following from Novell: 1) Netbios support that doesn't swamp your network with broadcasts. 2) Redirection of COM ports over the LAN to real devices. On B&W's product, you can use it as a "virtual modem" and do "atdt mit-eddie.mit.edu" from your terminal program -- and get connected! 3) Route that terminal session (or nearly anything else) to a machine 1000 miles away -- or anywhere reachable from your network. 4) REAL TCP/IP (or anything else) to a mainframe, without the bull$$$$ that gateways impose on you. (Ever try to transfer 1GB of data from a 3090 through a gateway? It takes a month -- that's only ~50 hours if you can do TCP/IP through a 56k link). 5) Printer service that integrates seamlessly with the rest of your systems, including Unix hosts and Macintoshes (ONE set of printers to buy for everyone instead of one for Unix, one for Novell, and one for the Macs). This alone is such a win in cost that you can spend the winnings ($5k/printer/location not needed) somewhere else -- like on real server horsepower! 6) Real performance from real servers, not glorified PCs running a load they were never intended to handle. Novell can't do any of that (with the possible exception of #6). And there's lots more it can't do either.... and all of it is easy with a TCP product like B&W NFS. Novell will let you see printer queues in action, yes. It will allow you to attach to printers easier, yes. All of which you can provide in about an hour's work with B&W NFS if you care to code a few things up for it. It really is that simple -- or are all the "network managers" out there incapable of using Turbo "C" and doing an hour work of work? The printer deficiencies in seeing the spooler status is more of a LPR/LPD thing than anything else. Have any of you actually looked at that code? It's a gawd-awful mess, frankly, it really stinks. What is needed there is a complete re-write..... which would likely give you a reasonable interface to it so you can do the kinds of things you want. Oh, one more thing. How much memory do you have after you load all of (1-5) above (at least the parts you can get at all), file service, and the like on Novell? Can you get to 590K of free TPA on a '386? Can you have 520K on a 286 (since 286 systems can't do QEMM)? Guess what happens on Novell when you NEED that free low memory. You get to remove IPX from memory, and you have >NO< network. I won't argue that Sun's product was or was not unacceptable to me -- it was. -- Karl Denninger - AC Nielsen, Bannockburn IL (708) 317-3285 kdenning@nis.naitc.com "The most dangerous command on any computer is the carriage return." Disclaimer: The opinions here are solely mine and may or may not reflect those of the company.