Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!daveh
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Apple
Message-ID: <19985@cbmvax.commodore.com>
Date: 20 Mar 91 03:26:20 GMT
References: <1991Mar17.212322.15105@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <19953@cbmvax.commodore.com> <45814@ut-emx.uucp>
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA
Lines: 76

In article <45814@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes:
>In article <19953@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:

>>Well, all that aside, it does shed an interesting light on the real cost of
>>Mac technology.  Anyone notice that Apple currently doesn't sell a color Mac
>>with even a floppy for under $1000.  Or under $2000, for that matter, last I

>The LC with 2 meg RAM, 40 meg HD, and 512x342 color goes for about $2000
>educational pricing.  I've seen the LC go for about $1700 mail order, so you
>could add a cheap VGA monitor and squeeze in under $2000.  Now, when you
>consider that Apple makes about 50% on each Mac sold, you can see lots of room
>for Apple to compete in the CDTV market.

The old Apple markup from cost to list was about 5x.  They're less now.  But 
you have to consider that a CD-ROM costs more than a 40 Meg Hard Disk Drive,
to start with.  Then consider that they would have to provide a 68020 based
system to deliver enough video performance to compete with a CDTV; for quite a
few operations, the blitter is as far or faster than a 14-16MHz '020.  68020
prices are still considerably above 68000 prices, and of course the cost of
the system isn't simply the processor, but the width of the bus necessarily
to support that processor.  

In short, they would need a Mac LC, or something very much like it, with a 
CD drive, to enter this market.  I don't see them doing it any time soon.
After all, they just entered the "low cost" (eg, under $1000) market, and it
wasn't with a system anywhere near that.

>>heard.  Either Apple's dreaming here, planning to compete in black&white
>>against color CDTVs and Nintendos, or they're currently ripping you all off
>>on color Macs.  

>That second one, I think.  Apple is sitting on a billion in cash.  

No doubts they used to be, and they're still on the pricey side, but no longer
outrageous.  They probably compare pretty well with IBM or Compaq now, on bang
per buck.

>Apple now has a games evangelist and I hear from at least one games developer
>that Apple gave more support than any of the other platforms the game runs on 
>Sim City).

Well, Sim City is a great game, no doubts, but it's hardly a typical video 
game.  I don't see a CDTV or MacTV directly attacking video games; they both
make a very good "information appliance".  But they also replace the video
game in the home, you don't likely have both.  CDTV games will absolutely blow
you away if you're used to Nintendo or Genesis type games, just based on the
CD storage capability.  Any real Mac OS is not going to be able to deliver
the same graphics speed.  I'm saying that Apple can't make a go of a CDTV
clone (or a CD-I clone, if Phillips ever figures out what CD-I actually is),
but I don't really understand why Apple picked something they're not good at
as an example of mid-90's innovation.  

>I don't think Commodore has that much to worry about.  

Me neither.  At least from Apple; we'll see if the CDTV catches on.  The idea
isn't that much of a new concept at Commodore.  We've been throwing around the
idea of a "stereo component computer" since the C128 days at least.  Like a
few other ideas that have been around for awhile, it's really taken a new
technology like the CD-ROM to make this a reasonable thing to do.  After 
mucking with a CDTV for while, I can say I'd certainly like one in my living
room, even with all the Amiga horsepower sitting in my computer room at home.

>On the other hand, Apple has lots more eggs, and can spread them among many 
>more baskets.

They do have the cash to spend on developing it (since it's mainly existing
technology nowadays, no biggie), and attracting software developers (who knows
what problem that is -- game developers, when you mention "all the disk space
you can use, and no way to copy it" seem to get real smiley).  Of course,
Commodore has it just about out the door....


-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
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	"What works for me might work for you"	-Jimmy Buffett