Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!es1
From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Re: Still no Ami businessware.
Message-ID: <1991Mar22.024332.15097@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
Sender: usenet@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (The Network News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Organization: Columbia University
References: <12017@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> <1991Mar15.220940.22327@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> <12115@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 91 02:43:32 GMT

In article <12115@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>
>Very true.  However, I have *no* interest whatsoever what Cmdre is doing.  I
>am not affiliated with Cmdre in any way, except as a registered developer.
>
>What I *care* about are the results.
>
	So in that case I guess you DO care what Commodore is
doing, cause what they do and what they spend money on will
affect the results.


>Here is the upshot:
>
>	1) Microsoft is developing a lot of decent software for Apple.
>	2) Lotus has developed an interesting package for Next.
>	3) Neither has done anything visible for the Amiga.
>		[Except, maybe, AmigaBasic, gee, great :) ]
>
>I don't care what Cmdre is doing, they are clearly not doing *enough*.  As an
>interested party, that really is all we should compare, no?  I can't believe
>that Steve Jobs paid more than $28million to Lotus, why haven't we seen
>similar results, then?  Clearly Cmdre has a bigger business market than the
>Next.  Heck, it's kind of a cheap shot to even compare the two -- what Nexts
>are selling, are going to schools, where it is not clear that business sftwre
>is likely to be used, or needed.
>
	But so far you haven't given one thing, specifically,
that Commodore COULD be doing differently. Giving $28 million to
Lotus? I don't think so.
	The reason Lotus went to the NeXT apparently was because
the development environment is so easy. Yes, NeXT's sales are up,
but I don't think NeXT will ever be profitable. They aren't
selling THAT many. Realistically, they are only selling to
colleges. If Columbia is any example, there are NO students who
own NeXTs, so student ownership is negligible. It is the school's
themselves who are buying for the most part. Basically, NeXTs are
nice machines at an unbeatable price, but they still aren't going
to succeed IMNSHO.
	So what should Commodore do? You're in the US. You know
Commodore's image. Commodore is asking a company like Lotus,
Microsoft, Fox Software, etc. to come into a market that is small
"but has potential". They will either have to totally retrain
their programmers, or hire outside programmers. The initial
committment is very big. It just isn't easy.

	Basically, we have to consider the cost in dollars per
amount of benefit, which is an amorphous term. Commodore knows
that if they spend money on R&D, it WILL provide good results.
They have history to back that up. Commodore could easily survive
on its technical prowess, as long as they keep up with the
game-machine market as the A500 slowly begins to lag behind.
	But then marketing issues are much harder. They've got
some stiff price competition recently. Mac has reduced prices
dramatically, introducing three new cheap models that no dealer
can keep in stock, and they just slashed prices on three other
models as well. Then there is NeXT...
	So maybe they could lower prices and let that work its
marketing magic. Arriving at shows and having very presentable
booths and demos is also a good way of attracting customers, as
long as the shows are well chosen.
	Commercials and advertising in general is very risky. You
pay for an enormous audience and no one could be listening. It is
just real expensive.

	So, come up with an answer! I can't believe that EVERYONE
at Commodore marketing is incompetent. 8-) We all know that
Commodore hasn't been successful at becoming mainstream. But just
bitching here about that fact doesn't get us anywhere. They have
a very difficult task to improve their image. 

	I'm babbling. Gotta stop doing this.

>They seem to have the resources, they have the operating system, they have
>what is apparently a sufficient market for some companies, so what's the
>holdup?
>
	Resources? Apple has 4x their annual sales. IBM has
megabucks. NeXT has money to throw around simply because Steve
Jobs doesn't care about profits. Also, if Lotus started porting
today, you might wait 1 1/2 -- 2 years before you saw anything.

>All bitterness is directed against Cmdre, not Ethan, of course :) :)
>
	Same here, of course. 8)

>>A tourist in New York City was overheard asking a New Yorker,
> Hey, hey, I'm from NY -- we never said no such thing.  Of course, then, I
> never lived in the city :)
>
	I'm from the city. Born. Raised. It depends who you ask
and what they're on. 8)

>
>David Navas                                   navas@cory.berkeley.edu
>Signature erased, because it used to be something snide against the Mac. 
>undergoing recnstrctn. [Also try c186br@holden, c260-ay@ara and c184-ap@torus]


	-- Ethan


Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb