Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!ucdavis!iris!zerkle From: zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc Subject: Re: Mac emulation Message-ID: <8628@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> Date: 19 Mar 91 10:09:04 GMT References: <1991Mar10.142932.14676@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> <4243.27de4d9e@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> <1991Mar19.020929.14769@netcom.COM> Sender: usenet@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu Reply-To: zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.emulations Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Lines: 129 In article <1991Mar19.020929.14769@netcom.COM> rodent@netcom.COM (Ben Discoe) writes: *#>What is to prevent someone from dumping them to EPROM and using that instead? *> Nothing, in a strictly physical sense. You wouldn't want to get caught *> doing it, of course. >Oh yeah, like Apple is going to call the police to harrass potential pirates. >Somehow I don't think that would be good PR for Apple. You obviously don't know much about Apple. They have a long standing history of attacking ANYBODY who does anything that smells of a violation of their property rights. Notably, they've attacked Franklin for emulating their Apple II's a few years back. They attacked Microsoft in an extremely unpopular (and stupid, and arrogant, IMHO) move because their Windows software too closely resembles the Macintosh interface. There are other incidents, too. They wouldn't flinch at raising a huge stink and suing someone personally. They have to do something with all those lawyers. >Of course, what's to stop people from just copying the ROMs onto disk and >using that (ala MacROM) for a totally-software macintosh? Nothing at all. Because it's ILLEGAL. That's why. If I didn't know that it would start the traditional piracy flame war, I would also say that it is IMMORAL, even though a lot of people would disagree with me and send me hate mail. I would say this because someday I want to make a living selling software I work on. Note, however, that I'm not saying this because if I did, lots of people would start the repetitive, useless piracy discussion. I have other reasons to post this message than to merely state that piracy is wrong. *#>On a related note, is it true that Apple is trying to dry up *#>the supply of 128K ROMs floating about? *> Yes >And they've been very successful at it. I tried to buy a legal ROM, but >couldn't find one, so I had to consult the underground. [ Discussion about EPROMs and ROMs being different ] >Even I have have enough EE knowledge to know that this is physically >impossible. An EPROM can be made indistinguishable from a ROM. But of >course, why bother when you can put the ROM on disk. You are saying that you are going to run the Mac operating system without legal access to the images that are on the ROMs. A later post of yours talks about using the AMAX software without the hardware, which is sold together. Look. This is patently illegal (pun intended). You shouldn't discuss this here. Period. Right now, there are no external controls on Usenet. I, for one, want to keep it this way. The best way to do this is to keep from attracting attention. No, we're not invisible. Newsweek, a couple weeks ago, printed the contents of an article I read in rec.humor.funny. Just imagine the headlines: CRIMINALS USE GOVERNMENT NETWORK TO PLAN SOFTWARE PIRACY The press is notoriously inaccurate when it comes to this sort of thing. They also tend to interview exactly the wrong people. Apple is so paranoid about protecting its intellectual properties, their representatives would blow the situation completely out of proportion. Ok. There are thousands of fingers out there twitching anxiously over the "F" key. Let me try to defuse a few of those responses before they start. Obvious response #1: ]IMMINENT DEATH OF USENET PREDICTED BY NET.COP!!! Yeah, I know. Usenet will survive. But do you really want the trouble? Do you want your system administrator to be forced to give you an application before you can get on Usenet? Do you want some of the Internet nodes (particularly the .gov sites) to stop carrying Usenet? Do you really want the attention? However far out you might think these things are, do you really want to take a chance? I don't think it's worth it. Obvious response #2: ]Apple's actions in witholding the ROM's are reprehensible. They ]deserve whatever they get. Since they are being jerks, I can do ]whatever I want. That's not the point. I agree that Apple is being a bunch of jerks. People who buy ROMs for emulators are people who already bought a computer. They won't buy another computer. But who cares? I can't stop you from doing whatever you want. Just don't discuss it here. We don't need the governmental paranoids making trouble for us. Obvious response #3: ]I can't get Mac ROM's any more. Since this is the only way I can ]run AMAX, it's ok for me to do this. Wrong, on two points. First, there's a company making a "clean room" version of the ROMs. Apparently they'll be even better than the real thing. Once this goes through, you'll be able to thumb your nose at Apple. Second, Apple OWNS those ROMs. They can control how they are sold. That's their right. If they don't want to sell them outside of a Mac, they are allowed to do that. It might not be nice, but they did in fact invent it. It took work, and it's theirs. Obvious response #4: ]Once you get the ROMs, it's fair use for me to put the information ]on them on my disk, so that it can load faster. I don't like waiting ]for the ROMs to load. I'm not talking about this. The post I'm responding to was talking about piracy. I don't have any objection to doing this sort of thing once you have the ROMs. I don't have any objection to people discussing how to do this to make their system work better. I object to people talking about they way they can get stuff from the "underground" illegally. .... Talk about what's technically possible. Talk about what you think pirates will do. Don't talk about how you are a pirate. Don't talk about how your friends are pirates. As long as I'm complaining, this thread belongs on .emulation. Followups are redirected there. Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240 Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.