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From: billt@chips.com (Bill Tuohy)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Imagining the imaging - the only solution for me ?
Message-ID: <10404@uwm.edu>
Date: 21 Mar 91 13:38:46 GMT
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In article <10308@uwm.edu> d87parfo@odalix.ida.liu.se (Par Fornland) writes:
>
>  My first encounter with good imaging was about a year ago in a
>shop.  The dealer was trying to sell me a dmp sampler-CD with
>excellent sound.  He put the CD in the player and pressed play. He
>said nothing about what components he used. The solo guitar came
>from somewhere 1.7m up on the wall.  
{stuff deleted}
>  A remarkable experience, had never heard of such a thing ever!
>Sound coming from above the speakers!!! Well, let's move on to my
>question:
>
...
>  How can I improve the imaging, what component makes the most
>improvement of the image?  I intend the keep the speakers.  Perhaps
>it is impossible [:-(] to make to sound wider with these speakers,
>even with highest-end components? In that case I'll just have to
>live with it...
>
>My guess about what makes the greatest diff. is as follows:  1.
>speakers 2. amp.  3. cables between amp. and speakers 4. cables
>between CD-player and amp.  5. CD-player but I'm not at all very
>experienced, so it's only a guess.
>

A few comments...

Cables should probably be last on your list, unless they are worn out
or frayed, or if the speaker wire is extremely thin ( > 18 guage, maybe)

The order of amp/speaker/source importance is debatable, I'd give them
probably equal weighting.  If you have a good amp and speakers, you can
probably tolerate a cheap CD player, but maybe not for long :)

There seems to be one important element you haven't mentioned:

Speaker placement.  

You mention having them on a wall.  They should 
probably be out a couple feet from any walls, and a couple feet off
the floor.  Try to make the dimensions from the two near walls and the
floor all be different, to minimize standing waves from reflections.

Also try closing curtains over any windows in the room.

Place the left and right speakers symmetrically, that is the left speaker
is the same distance from the left wall as the right from the right wall,
same distance from the rear wall, etc.  Then sit at the tip of an
iscocoles (sp?) triangle, meaning if the speakers are 6 feet apart, then
try to place your listening seat about 8-10 feet from the speakers.

These dimensions are all approximate, you'll have to experiment.  Also
experiment with the toe-in of the speakers, range it all the way from
having the front of the speakers parallel to the back wall, to angled
in so that your ears are on a direct line with the drivers, and see
what seems best to you.

With proper placement, good room acoustics, and decent equipment you
should be able to a decent sound stage, extending beyond and above,
as well as behind the speakers.  If you still only hear a narrow stage
in the center, then you probably need better equipment.  I think cables
tend to affect low frequency response most but maybe not.  I believe
the "imaging" information is mostly in the highs, if there is such
a thing.  The CD player probably would be the place to start, from what
you said about the relative quality of your equipment.

Give it some time, it takes a while to get used to the sound of a
new arrangement to recognize what the effects on imaging are.  Be
patient, take it slow, listen a LOT, and try not to make hasty
decisions about spending lots of money on new stuff.


Good luck!

>
>!!!!!!!!!  Par Fornland, Linkoping Institute of Technology, Sweden

Bill