Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!ukma!seismo!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Reincarnation and Christianity Message-ID: Date: 27 Mar 91 02:27:06 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia Lines: 97 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , mls@sfsup.att.com (Mike Siemon) writes: > As far as I know, there is NO evidence of a belief in reincarnation > by any early Christian group, gnostic or otherwise. People who make > this claim seem to me to be confusing it with a rather different kind > of belief about souls that *was* moderately common (especially in the > gnosticizing groups, but also in heavily neo-platonic circles within > orthodoxy -- Origen is a principal figure often cited in this context.) Not to contradict a word of this, but I'd like to quote a few things from Reincarnation Mark C. Albrecht InterVarsity Press, 1982 ISBN 0-87784-378-3 The US price when I bought it was about US$6. Chapter 4 is about "Reincarnation and the Early Church". p44 (emphasis mine): There was no such action [of anathematizing the doctrine of reincarnation] at any church council in the entire first millenium: the subject was not even broached at the ecumenical councils. The only time a similar problem came up was in reference to the third-century theologian Origen, whose speculations concerning the pre-existence of the soul were anathematized at the Council of Constantinople in 553. However, Origen SPECIFICALLY DENIED REINCARNATION in his later writings. p46 The greatest debate on the subject of reincarnation in the early church has raged around Origen (185--254). Head and Cranston state categorically "That Origen taught the pre-existence of the soul in past world orders of this earth and its reincarnation in future worlds is beyond question." One of the great thinkers of early Christianity, Origen won by his speculative brilliance both admirers and antagonists within the church. Strongly influenced by Greek philosophy, Origen (at least in his earlier works) did teach the doctrine of pre-existence of the soul, that is, that humans were formerly angelic creatures whose good or bad deeds in the heavens resulted in a favourable or not-so-favourable birth on earth. His writings on pre-existence, however, specifically denied transmigration after the initial incarnation of the soul. Even many Christian scholars are unsure as to whether or not Origen held to reincarnation, but it would seem that they have simply not read Origen thoroughly on this subject. In his commentary on Matthew, he directly considers this under the title "Relation of John the Baptist to Elijah---the Theory of Transmigration Considered": In this place, it does not appear to me that by Elijah the soul is spoken of, lest I should fall into the dogma of transmigration, which is foreign to the Church of God and not handed down by the Apostles, nor anywhere set forth in the Scriptures. For observe, [Matthew] did not say, in the "soul" of Elijah, in which case the doctrine of transmigration might have some ground, but "in the spirit and power of Elijah". In another place, he says Let others who are strangers to the doctrine of the Church assume that souls pass from the bodies of men into the bodies of dogs. We do not find this at all in the Divine Scriptures. His commentary on Matthew was written toward the end of his life (about 247), when he was over sixty years of age, and it most likely records his final opinions on the subject. His comments on John the Baptist and Elijah are followed by a length refutation of the doctrine of transmigration. I (R.A.O'K) have not yet got my hands on a copy of this commentary. Some other quotations from that book: p47: Irenaeus devoted the entirety of chapter 33 of "Against Heresies" to transmigration; his chapter title sets the tone: "Absurdity of the Doctrine of Transmigration of Souls". ... Tertullian ..., writing in his "Apology", traces the doctrine of reincarnation to Pythagoras and opines that "the doctrine of transmigration is a falsehood which is not only shameful, but hazardous. It is indeed manifest that dead men are formed from living ones; but it does not follow from that, that living men are formed from dead ones." p48: Even Augustine, despite the fact that he was a Manichaean Gnostic for nine years before his conversion, and was well versed in Platonic thought, only mentions reincarnation in passing. In his letter to Optatus, he writes "for it is impossible that you should hold to the opinion that it is for deeds in a former life that souls are confined in earthly and mortal bodies." Someone mentioned the book of Enoch in connection with this. I've read the book of Enoch, but I must have missed the reference. (When I listen to Shostakovitch's "The King of the Stars" it reminds me of 1 Enoch as much as it does of Revelation.) Anyone know which verses? -- Seen from an MVS perspective, UNIX and MS-DOS are hard to tell apart.