Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!pikes!mercury.cair.du.edu!diana.cair.du.edu!ttoupin From: ttoupin@diana.cair.du.edu (Tory Toupin) Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: Dreams(Garbage collection) Message-ID: <1991Mar31.024741.29337@mercury.cair.du.edu> Date: 31 Mar 91 02:47:41 GMT References: <1991Mar27.162850.4397@mercury.cair.du.edu> <1991Mar30.023454.12481@athena.mit.edu> Sender: news@mercury.cair.du.edu (netnews) Organization: University of Denver Lines: 63 In article <1991Mar30.023454.12481@athena.mit.edu> prune@athena.mit.edu (Paul Berland) writes: >In article <1991Mar27.162850.4397@mercury.cair.du.edu>, ttoupin@diana.cair.du.edu (Tory Toupin) writes: >|> How about this: the brain is attempting to piece together memories to form >|> temporary concepts -- a form of forethought? That is to say, memories are >|> symbols of the state of the body when the memory was formed, and the brain >|> tends to superimpose(?) these symbols...and see if they are physically >|> possible situations based on the knowledge of situations which can/have >|> occurred by trying these memories out on the "virtual body" (i.e.: the >|> so-called mind's eye, but the entire body as well) and if it is not >|> physically possible, it mutates the symbols slightly so that >|> they are not associated as well with one another. > >This idea I find less plausible than the garbage-collection one, even as a >sub-process. Dreams work with symbols not physical objects and situations. >Dreams progress using logic much different than the rules of our world so >that the "physically possible situations" cannot be determined in the dream >state. Many physically impossible situations occur routinely without >benefit of critical analysis, which is performed by a part of the mind >which is usually asleep. This idea would be more plausible to me if it >described not the test of physical processes but the test of symbolic >forms. That is a much more common theory in dream psychology. I did not mention PHYSICAL objects, but, in fact, memories: "...memories are symbols of the state of the body when the memory was formed [the experience was 'had']..." Now, as I stated above, in the process of dreaming, these symbols are put together (based on some "strong" association--be it smell, image, temperature, or other) to form a temporary symbol which is applied to the virtual body. What is the virtual body? Perhaps one way to look at it is as a "device" in the body which has the duty of taking stimuli and "return- ing" feedback from that stimuli--just like the real body, but no REAL action is performed. For example: visualizing a landscape. When one remembers a land- scape, the symbol for that landscape is applied to the virtual body--the feed- back that is given in reply to this symbol (stimuli) is, though not exactly the same, somewhat similar to the feedback that was stored when the landscape was first experienced (Is this making any sense? If not, I'll try another example). Certainly, the virtual body is quite closely associated with the real body since it is able to return the feedback that the real body would have had it received the symbol. Thus, the virtual body should be able to recognize when a symbol it has been given is physically possible ("virtually possible" is perhaps a better way to phrase it) or physically not possible in the sense that, if the body has never experienced the symbol before (say, sustained flight without aid) it must not be possible. If the symbols that were superimposed to produce this impossible temporary symbol, then the symbols are forced to diverge so that they are not associated with one another in the future (This is, I'd guess, a form of garbage collection). However, that temporary associated is STILL a valid memory and it may or may not be retained (by what criterion it is kept or "deleted", I'm not quite sure). Anyway, see if you think this is any more plausible with the added explan- ation... -- Tory S. Toupin | ttoupin@diana.cair.du.edu | Existence toward perfection... Unversity of Denver | Life of mediocrity. Undergraduate: Math & Computer Sciences| Denver, CO 80208 | -Tory Toupin ----- C'est ne pas un fichier de <<.signature>>