Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!tellab5!vpnet!louisg From: louisg@vpnet.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto) Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Re: EFF & CPSR Message-ID: <1991Mar29.080758.14069@vpnet.chi.il.us> Date: 29 Mar 91 08:07:58 GMT References: <1991Mar27.193824.29232@spool.cs.wisc.edu> <8243@crash.cts.com> Organization: Vpnet Public Access Lines: 75 In article <8243@crash.cts.com> lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird Broadfield) writes: > >I would guess that CPSR is the same way; even if they don't say it right >on the enrollment form (like ACM) it's there. You are a *member* of >CPSR, just as you would be a *member* of the Communist Party. This is the key point. I agree with this 100%. I am not for "social responsibility" as they define it. While I may agree with concern over the environment (as any person with half a brain would), I may not necessarily agree with the CPSR stance on what should be done. For example, I agree that we shouldn't dump toxic waste into the ocean, but I'm not about to join Greenpeace since I don't think the solution is to cap the outlet pipes of a chemical factory. As Mr. Broadfield states, by being a member, you passively support the agenda of the group you belong to. By voting democrat or republican, you don't necessarily support all of thier political agenda, but you are responsible for furthering it whether you like it or not. The agenda I would like to further most is that of the EFF. I would like to expand the Electronic frontier, make non-technogeeks aware of it, and influence how society thinks about it. The way I would like society to think about it would definitely not be represented by the agenda of CPSR since the frontier represents much more than social responsibility. I have nothing against CPSR, but when I suggested EFF chapters and someone suggested CPSR in lieu of them, I was somewhat amazed since the purpose of both groups *do* overlap but are decidedly different in many respects. I am not for promoting socially responsible computer professionals as I am in promoting attitudes towards the electronic frontier that are informed. This has a much broader aspect than social responsibility. For example, CPSR would probably be against hacking. This would, in most people's minds be socially irresponsible. However, down under, hacking is not always socially irresponsible. Most people still don't agree about whether what Morris did was right or wrong. The courts think it was wrong. The EFF is not concerned with the social responsibility of the act -- they are concerned with how the frontier is represented in light of such acts. That is my interpretation of the EFF agenda, and not a statement by them. I would not join ACM to promote the agenda of the EFF, and I don't plan to join CPSR to promote the agenda of the EFF. While all three groups may overlap, the agenda is different. I may join CPSR or ACM for a different reason, but not for the same reason I would join EFF> At any rate, I haven't heard any EFF guys say anything about this. Mr. Godwin? Any comments? Or should I send a letter to Mr. Kapor suggesting this? I would really like to see something like this start up. I know that a lot of people (believe it or not) at my school, including the faculty, still have not even heard of the EFF. THis would help to generate interest and publicity in the group which, in turn, may help to generate more income when the group gets non-profit status and needs the income. I think this would be a good thing. Loyola might even be a good test school since it is rather small, has a wide curriculum, is in a major city, has a decent law school, and, of course, some of the most famous outrages against the electronic frontier have been commited by branches of institutions located right here in Chicago. (My plug for Loyola having a chapter) Louis Giliberto, Jr. P.S. Maybe even a non-school-specific related chapter such as combining Loyola with U of I-Chicago, University of Chicago, and IIT at least until it begins to grow. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ! "As above, so below; as below, so above" -- The Kybalion ! ! "I don't trust him; he has dark hair" -- My girlfriend's mother ! ! "So I'm stupid; what's your point?" -- Me !