Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!psuvax1!news From: melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) Subject: Re: Amiga OS *IS* state of the art, but the NeXT is better In-Reply-To: rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu's message of Wed, 3 Apr 91 03:38:27 GMT Message-ID: <.$2G0ysf1@cs.psu.edu> Sender: news@cs.psu.edu (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: sunws5.sys.cs.psu.edu Organization: Penn State Computer Science References: <1991Apr2.192023.26598@sugar.hackercorp.com> <1991Apr3.033827.1716@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 04:08:08 GMT Lines: 67 In article <1991Apr3.033827.1716@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: When did the Amiga lose? Amiga's are selling better now than they have ever done before. Let's not forget that the Commodore 64 was also branded a game machine yet it sold 10 million machines world wide and is still selling. I predict NeXT's aren't going to achieve much of a market penetration. There are low-end Amigas (500), low end Macs(Classic), lo end IBM's (pc/xt), but there is no low-end NeXT. The cheapest model is over $3000 and that's just the educational price. I used to own a Commodore 64 and 128 so I know all about them. The Amiga lost, in my opinion, because is could have done so much better. They aren't accepted in Fortune 500 companies, you don't find too many campus computer labs full of Amigas, and major developers still don't write software for them. We have one where I work(A2500), but the people who I work with would rather play with Toolbook -- Damn that thing is slow. That's how much respect it gets. Regardless of that fact, the Amiga continues to sell without any marketing. Just think how good it would sell with marketing. The Commodore 64 sold 10 million with hardly any marketing. I guess that says alot about Commodore's technical excellence and price. Commodore sold 10 million 64's because they sold them for $200 a piece. When an entire Amiga system goes for $500, they will take off too(IMHO). Get WP and Lotus on the machine, and I think a lot of people will them. Then again, you need a flicker fixer. People might go for VGA machines instead. You need to wake up to the fact that the general populace isn't going to purchase a NeXT anymore than they'd purchase a Sun or Vax. Sure, it's cool to develop on the NeXT (objective-c, yuck), but you can't sell a machine to developers only, developers need consumers to buy what developers develop. An Amiga or Mac w/040 would kill NeXT in speed considering the overhead of NeXTStep, Display Postscript, and Unix compared to that of AmigaDOS or Finder. Most people aren't interested in speed, they want functionality. It's what you do with the speed that matters. NeXT gives the consumer Display Postscript, voice mail, and built in fax capabilities. The Amiga gives you the best games in the business. And about Interface builder. The NeXT isn't the only machine that has interface building programs.They are availible on the Ibm, Mac, and Amiga as well. And Motif. There is a free IB with Interviews for generic X Windows, but it is only an alpha version. So, spend a few hundred bucks and buy the one for your machine. Do you have your calculator out? Amiga 3000 + 040 board + C++ + IB + Mathematica + DSP + 92 dpi display = Should we throw in ethernet? That costs an extra $500 on a Mac. And why the hell is Commodore still using 800K drives in the Amiga? Considering how long the NeXT has been around, and how many units it has sold, i'd say it's more of a loser than Commodore. I think NeXT released their first machines in Sept. 88. Their latest machines shipped in December. Your right, the old machines didn't sell well because they were a bit slow, but they have sold about 20,000 new machines so far. NeXT hasn't won yet, but they are poised to make their mark. -Mike